I have 63.5 hours in Vampire Survivors, 9.6 in Seraph's Last Stand, 4.1 in Soulstone Survivors, and 3.5 in 20 Minutes Till Dawn. I've played these Survivors-likes a lot, and I daresay I even like them. However, they represent one of the greatest issues of contemporary gaming and media consumption more broadly. With little exception, Survivors-likes are about pleasure rather than enjoyment.

That these games are pleasurable is hard to deny, they're perfectly tuned to tickle the brain through large damage numbers getting larger, (theoretically) overwhelming odds, the pseudo-random element of choices on level up, and pitch-perfect dings and chimes when getting XP. Vampire Survivors in particular adds on the pleasure of opening something with its treasure chests with resplendent animations and music. The first few hours of any Survivors-like are the best because of the sense of mystery, not knowing what's behind the curtain making it tick. You're left wondering how long you can last, what evolutions are possible, what maps you can unlock, what new systems lie in store. In that sense it's not entirely dissimilar to a 'regular' roguelite like The Binding of Isaac (1,031.9 hours), Slay the Spire (282.7 hours), or Enter the Gungeon (217.9 hours). Like those games, Survivors-likes have an overarching progression with gradual unlocks for doing tasks. Like those games, there's a feeling of becoming better at the game over time. The problem is that in nearly all Survivors-likes, you aren't actually improving at all, nor are you facing an actual challenge. You simply think you are.

The three roguelites I mentioned above have a lot of their enjoyment stemming from 'breaking' the game, finding out how to effectively use its mechanics and synergies in the most advantageous way. But figuring out how to break the game requires, at least in part, some knowledge of how the game works and how to manipulate play to increase the odds of breaking the game. In TBoI, a player has to know to avoid damage to get a Devil Room. As such, getting some of the best items in the game demands mechanically perfect play. You can fail forward into some synergies for sure, but to actually unlock access to potential advantages, you have to earn it. Even the items that would allow one to overcome the skill requirement are themselves tied to a skill requirement for their unlocking. StS, as an engine-building game, lets you demolish its challenges with a well-maintained deck, but you have to know how the mechanics work and how to deal with enemies that can render your engine moot.

Survivors-likes, on the surface, have that same game-breaking with their item evolutions/syngeries. You might feel clever for discovering an evolution, and like a badass for wiping out hordes with little to no resistance. But you didn't get that power through knowing how a fight works (unless knowing to move slightly away from an enemy is intricate knowledge), you got it by picking two items from a very, very limited pool. A limited pool that allows you, with progression, to remove items from it or skip the choices until you get what you want. It's similar to holding R in TBoI to get a good first item room, or waiting at a traffic light, trying to predict when it will turn green, and saying 'that didn't count' when you got it wrong. You're sinking up to thirty minutes per run into something solvable and solved. Without the ability to choose when you use what attacks, and with enemy attacks amounting to 'go where they are thinnest' and 'move up a little bit to avoid a slow projectile,' there's no skill ceiling or skill floor. There's no consequence for a poor (read: mathematically incorrect) decision outside of your numbers not being ideal; picking up Ipecac when you have Broken Mirror this is not.

To be abundantly clear, there isn't anything implicitly wrong with the Survivors-like formula, and there's nothing implicitly wrong with finding pleasure in them. They are purposely designed to elicit pleasure, after all. The issue is that players are largely uncritical of what they are consuming, why they find it pleasurable, and whether or not it is actually enjoyable. Pleasure and enjoyment are not mutually exclusive, but pleasure is something that happens to you, and enjoyment is something earned by you. To keep things in the realm of gaming, those broken runs in TBoI are pleasurable because of a sense of accomplishment, and enjoyable because that accomplishment was meaningfully earned. Survivors-likes are pleasurable because of a sense of becoming stronger and doing well, but not enjoyable because there is minimal effort put in and no actual skill. Playing a multiplayer shooter with your friends is pleasurable and enjoyable because you are exercising your skills and spending time with people whose company you enjoy. You are lost in the moment so actions like imperfect play do not hamper your pleasure, and since you are still being tested no matter how you perform, it remains enjoyable. Playing a multiplayer shooter alone has varying pleasure tied directly to performance of play, and enjoyment derived from trying your best.

Again, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with deriving pleasure from these games. You should, however, stop and ask yourself from time to time if you are getting any enjoyment from what you're doing. Maybe you're not, and that's alright, but a life lived in pursuit of pleasure above all else is probably not a very fulfilling one. And companies know that we love pleasure. It's why social media exists in the way it does to keep your attention indefinitely. It's why Marvel movies follow the same formula time and again. It's why reality TV was and is such a massive market. It's why viral marketing and the media tell you you have to watch the new Netflix original film, lest you suffer FOMO. It's why Survivors-likes demand a large investment of time so you feel more emotionally attached to the experience and will tell your friends they have to play it.

Take a step back and ask yourself, why?

Reviewed on Nov 11, 2022


13 Comments


1 year ago

Also Asmongold can go to hell.

1 year ago

The closest thing I've played to a "Survivors-like" is Cookie Clicker. I often think about how many games i could of played in the hundreds of hours i played Cookie Clicker and get a lil sad. Also yeah fuck Asmongold and any other """creator""" who just steals other peoples work while adding the most surface level "commentary" while ALSO sending hate to the people who they are profiting off of.

1 year ago

Yeah I don't even want to think how much time I've (consciously) spent on idle games. Steam says 64.8 hours on Clicker Heroes, 41.2 on Clicker Heroes 2, 62.3 on Cookie Clicker, 9.9 on Leaf Blower Revolution, 567 on Melvor Idle, 3,485.8 on NGU Idle, but it's impossible to tell how much of all of that was involved. Also doesn't include the countless other clickers played off of Steam. Idlers and clickers became a thing when I was finishing high school and even if it was never malicious, the effects of those games on a developing mind are still being felt by me today.

1 year ago

3100 hours in cookie clicker reporting.

1 year ago

I'm so relieved I've never ever got hooked on these kind of experiences. I always see the bullshit on the bullshitter and I just don't feel very good with instances like this. Seriously is like jerking off your brain.

1 year ago

SNKRX is an interesting pull to me because it predates VS by a good while, and importantly I think SNKRX offers more interesting choices and challenges

Anyway Asmongold can go do one

1 year ago

Yeah I'll probably remove SNKRX from that lineup since it's, for lack of a better term, a substantive game. My brain was just scrambling through my library for other survivors-likes I'd played

1 year ago

For sure, for what it's worth I think it's important to look at in this context because it shows how the auto-battler genre and by extension the "Survivor-like" isn't as much of an issue as the specific application which sort of feeds on executive dysfunction

1 year ago

Best negative review I've seen written about this game to date, all the points you bring up are very fair and hard to argue against and you seem to really understand the appeal of games like this despite their fundamental flaws. Personally, i view the survivors-like games, or idle games like cookie clicker, as an outlet that will only give as much as the player is willing to take, and the experience is drastically changed by the way the player approaches the game. A bit like some of the more 'tangible' vices, it can work if you're able to take it in small doses and not let your time be consumed by it. Sure, the games are designed to drive you to addiction, and have to be criticized by that, but i can still find value in a casual skinner box type game, specially as a phone game to play in the doctor's waiting room or whatever.

6 months ago

This review is a delight, if only because up until now I'd felt insane for viewing Survivor-likes with the same kind of scorn I have for Clickers/Idle games.

6 months ago

PC gamers: "Mobile games suck."
PC gamers when they see a re-skinned mobile game that looks vaguely like Castlevania and is shilled by their favorite e-celeb: "Wooah! So awesome! I can't wait to spend 1,000 hours on this game!"

2 months ago

This review is really well written I like it.