Sly Coops and the gang are back for more, with even more thieves! But there's something missing, because more isn't always better.

I've discussed this briefly when talking about Rayman 2 and so has Fudj in a video where he discusses trends of 3D vs 2D platformers. Many of the 3D platformers of the time insert in tons of minigames, gimmick levels, and in general, unrelated gameplay sections because they're not entirely confident they can keep the player hooked with just core 3D platforming and thus try and break up the 3D platforming with other sections to keep the players on their toes. The notable exceptions to this I feel are Super Mario 64 (which is almost exclusively level based 3D platforming outside of boss fights) and to an extent, Rayman 2. Now don't get me wrong, Sly 2 is not an exception to this rule, but in Sly 2, the platforming remains king; everything that's not the 3D platforming does its best to ensure that it plays second fiddle to avoid taking away the focus from the core stealth 3D platforming missions. And fortunately, I pretty much enjoyed all the side content in Sly 2.

Unfortunately, I respectfully cannot say that is the case for its sequel; it looks like an example where the devs went "hmm, these minigames were really well received! Let's do more with them!" and lost focus of the central mechanics that made Sly 2 so great. To try and explain this further, I'll note that this game has a much smaller emphasis on level exploration via platforming in the hubs. Gone are the clue bottles that were carefully spread around in Sly 2 that made you want to scour the thoughtfully planned and cohesive levels just to get all the collectibles and score a new ability at the safe. Sly 3 also removes the big treasures (that is, both the untimed and timed treasures hidden in nooks & crannies of Sly 2 that you could sell for big cash on Thief Net) from the previous game; it was definitely quite satisfying mapping out and executing routes to snag big treasures back to the safe house, and that's just not a thing here. That also means that almost all the cash you'll need to buy abilities must be collected through object destruction or pickpocketing without the big treasures, and as a result, Sly 3 actually feels more grindy than Sly 2 despite having less overall exploration; this also resulted in me having not purchased all the powerups by the end of the game (though there are obligatory powerups that you'll need for certain levels, mind you), and definitely made the game feel more restrictive when compared to the sandbox-like nature of the previous game. So where did all the time go?

As mentioned previously, Sly 3 feels like an ambitious exercise in some ways, where they decided they had more or less mastered the core gameplay of stealth based 3D platforming missions and decided to invest all their energy into developing better side missions and gameplay... but in doing so, pretty much made that the core gameplay instead. They're all over the place in Sly 3 with the gimmick levels/content; throughout the game, you are driving RC cars, flying a plane in a dogfight, using a grappling hook on a toy helicopter to yank enemies away, rowing a boat while your buddy handles the cannon, controlling a turret and firing at enemies, and playing Dungeon Master by activating traps while enemies flood in, to just name a few. It almost feels like Mario Party at times and it can feel very overwhelming having to constantly shift between so many different modes of play all with different control schemes. There are so, so many "protect the objective" side missions in this game with alternate bars of health to watch out for, and there's usually no way to recover those bars of health, so many of the sections feel like an uphill battle. The absolute worst though, were the many forced pirate ship battles in Chapter 6, all right after one another in the same condensed section (with optional pirate fights if you can't avoid them going between objectives). During this section of the game, you have to fight off (often multiple, sometimes up to 4) pirate ships at the same time by turning the ship with your triggers while you set off cannons with standard platforming controls. Because you're often outnumbered and outgunned, you often have to approach them from very far away and hope for good pot shots from behind, which can take quite a while since the ships are not particularly fast. And if the opposing pirate ships score hits on you and take out your cannons as they often do, you'll have significantly less fire power and no recourse to recover this firepower (or health) until you exit battle by winning/losing the fight. The only reward? More cash. I felt like I was in pirate battles for half of my life (despite the whole affair only taking about 3 hours max) and probably threw a few fights here and there if I got forced into a random encounter; I was pretty done with the grind by this point.

Fortunately, Sly 3 still absolutely owns on its atmosphere. The banter remains fantastic and is in my opinion, even funnier than Sly 2; props go to the dialogue tree prompts, as you can pick the "wrong" option with no consequences and it's a ton of fun forcing characters to react to absurd propositions. The over the top cartoon violence and the master schemes of the Cooper Gang during their grand heists are still there, and the new characters play their role excellently in this chaos. Speaking of which, it's actually quite fun playing as the new characters in their respective 3D platforming sections; they feel quite natural as an extension to Sly 2, similar to how Bentley was more gadget focused like a Mission Impossible movie or Murray was more of a brawler and turned the game into Wario World for a little while. (The core platforming, by the way, is still as slick as ever when you actually get to do it; press Circle to do cool spy platforming thing will never get old.) And finally, this game's boss fights are fantastic and absolutely insane; these are absolutely some of the highlights so I won't go into too much detail and spoil the moments, but let's just say, they've come a long way from the rhythm game boss of the original Sly Cooper.

All in all, I think Sly 3 is a case of taking a few steps forward and more steps backward from trying to do everything at once; the atmosphere, humor, and presentation are all there (and in fact feel quite improved to me; I didn't think a game could look better than Sly 2's cel-shaded visuals, and I'm more than happy to be proven wrong), but ended up performing subtraction by addition by inserting so many different gameplay modes that often lacked polish or felt repetitive while taking away some of the features that made the core 3D platforming from Sly 2 feel so tightly constructed in the first place. I still had a really good time though despite coming very close to throwing my controller during Chapter 6, and I'm really pleased that I finally got to tackle a core trilogy of classic 3D platformers that I never got around to during my childhood.

Reviewed on Jul 14, 2022


5 Comments


It's interesting how much I do and don't agree with this review, though this is one of the very few times I feel like someone actually did a good job dissecting why Sly 3 doesn't quite measure up to 2 as well instead of just being like "Sly 2's just is better lolz"

I don't... exactly agree about the different minigames being a hinderance to the quality. Don't get me wrong, there are some BAD ones, like most of Chapter 6 as you mentioned, and the few times you gotta do the vehicle stuff at the outback setting, but overall it's probably the most consistently enjoyable sets of minigame missions, compared to 1 where some of the arcade elements just fall so flat and 2 where it's very inconsistent throughout (also I swear there's like a designated turret or RC mission every chapter, but I haven't played it in a while so I don't rightfully remember). A lot of them control super well, and even if they didn't they at least felt the length they should've been. All that said, this could be a case of tunnel vision cause again, been a while since I played the games, and I don't even think 2's side stuff as a whole is awful since it's still pretty good.

I DEFINITELY agree about the coin output though, in fact this is one of the very few times someone actually mentioned that instead of regurgitating about the missing clue bottles (which is in a similar predicament to my feelings about the cut Clock Tower in R3make: yea this would've been an opportunity for it to be designed better, but I never exactly cared about those sections to begin with so its absence is fine by me). The Treasure Hunt in S2 was both a fun activity to maneuver and get better about the world and its environments, and also provided easy cash to get the necessary upgrades. In a design standpoint, 3's sandbox is a step up from 2 thanks to more distinct setpieces, areas and interactable objects to let Murray and Bentley finally do verticality and get to places quicker instead of just defaulting to Sly for a majority of the time because he's the only one to do such a feat... but you don't exactly have much of a reason to explore it fully this time around. It really bums me out having played this so many times cause there were a lot of cases where I want "man, this spot could've been a great challenge for treasure hunting or even clue bottle placements". It's a rather strange case, cause you either have a sandbox that allows the player to fully interact with it at the cost of it only being viable for one of the three characters, or you make it so that each character can be able to go around the map with little to no issue at the cost of side activity and reason to engage much of it. This isn't even mentioning how like, weirdly stingy the actual economy of 3 is this time around, but I already rambled on this point too much.

A number of 2's platforming missions focuses on horizontal point A to B missions, with the occasional vertical climbs needing to do something, which feel more... rudimentary? compared to even the first game which kept the action and flow moving with numerous ways to climb, sprint, or slide across places, which I feel 3 goes back to the point of and does it with a lot of finesse to it. One focus isn't necessarily better than the other since each has its pros and cons, but it's something I bring up cause again, the change of focus between the two games is something I've always been curious about.

Last thing I want to say is that it's interesting you haven't touched that much on the story of each game, that's usually one of the go-tos for people when discussing the series. Dunno if you're focused on the gameplay aspect of a game than its story, so I was curious as your thoughts if you have any.

Hopefully this ramble isn't like, totally negative or comes across as a put-down, I really am curious to have a conversation about this since Sly 3's not only my favorite of the PS2 trilogy, but a game that means a lot to me to the point it's one of my all time favorites.

1 year ago

Hey, thanks for taking the time to read the whole review and comment with your thoughts! Let me elaborate on some of the questions here:

(spoilers incoming for outsiders who are reading this, so beware)

So there actually are some pretty fun minigames/gimmick levels in Sly 3 that I didn't completely expand upon. Some of these include all the dogfight levels, any sections that involved Carmelita because it's just fun jumping around and shooting everything, most of the RC car sections (with the exception of the RC car section that involved driving back up to the rooftops every time you fell off, that one sucked), and the bamboo forest boss fight where I got to pretend I was recreating Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. I do think some of the lows from the gimmick levels caused me to knock the score down a bit though. Besides the pirate ship sections and the RC car section in chapter 6 with the rooftops, the other minigames I wasn't so much a fan of were the RC helicopter protect the objective sections (it always felt like there were too many enemies to deal with and no way to prevent damage or recover from it, just mitigate it; that and for some reason my hook missed a ton), and the swimming sections, which sort of felt more like bait & punish with strangely feeling first person camera perspective rather than what I had expected, which was 3rd person swimming controls focusing on fluidity of motion. For the most part, the other minigames were fine but it felt like they were trying to do everything at once with all these different styles when they could have just focused on a few solid minigame diversions like the shmup from Sly 2 or the aerial combat sections from this game. I don't recall there being a turret section every chapter in Sly 2 (though there are definitely more)? I wasn't a huge fan of those back then either, but I sort of just dealt with it and managed to clear it on my first/second try every time back then, but I got pretty tilted from the one turret section in Chapter 5 about protecting the objective, since there were just so many enemies and I had to fire pretty carefully to not hit Murray himself.

Honestly, you raise a pretty good point regarding the accessibility of the levels to now include Murray and Bentley; I hadn't considered that, but it is true that the levels feel a lot more navigable with all characters as opposed to heavily relying upon trampolines whenever playing as the other two in Sly 2. Also, props to Sly 3 telling you from the get-go which characters still have missions that need to be completed, while Sly 2 does make you at least go outside and press R3 to see if any pillars match your current character; this is something that I could have mentioned but probably forgot. Also lending credence to your theory is that Bentley can actually pickpocket guards this time around, even if he's not necessarily the optimal choice since he can't Spire Jump or climb up poles like Sly. I think if they included more incentives to explore, such as adding back in the optional treasures or even the clue bottles honestly (perhaps stratifying this by making Bentley & Murray absolutely necessary to get some of the clue bottles), this probably would have been a better sandbox than Sly 2, but as we discussed, the lack of treasure led to a lack of overall funds without grinding, which does lead to less customization options in Thief Net easily (not to mention that as you said, the economy is a lot more stingy).

And I can agree that Sly 3's platforming missions feel more obvious in diversifying the movement; big props to one of the last missions in Chapter 7 making you utilize every trick up Sly's sleeve, or some of the cave platforming missions in the outback. Unfortunately, I think the focus of some of the stronger platforming missions is taken away by just how many minigames and gimmick levels are thrown inbetween as well as a lack of incentive to do more platforming/exploration in the hub levels by taking away collectibles, again as previously mentioned.

So I didn't talk much about the story in the Sly series, mainly because I've always been more focused on how cool the platforming feels as compared to other 3D platformers of the time and I've done my fair share playing and reviewing "story-heavy" games. But honestly, Sly's story serves the purpose just fine; it never feels intrusive or overwhelming, and I never felt like there was excess exposition to drive a wedge between the action segments. Sly's backstory is definitely well explored in the original, but that's mainly all I can recall. I think Sly 2 is where things start to get interesting, because Sly's relationship with Bentley, Murray, and Carmelita becomes a major focus of the plot, and they really start to come into their own with their own narratives and perspectives. Sly 3 sort of feels like this, but with more one-offs I feel because there are a lot more characters this time around and each character gets at most one world to explore what they've been up to (with the exception of Sly; seeing his perspective evolve over the game is definitely worthwhile). The trade off here is that you get really interesting nods back to the first and second games and some fantastic banter between the larger gang of thieves, so I didn't mind at the end of the day. I suppose that's where I stand with Sly's story; I don't think it has to be a central focus of the games, but they serve to accentuate the actions of everything going on in the game without taking away the spotlight. The story definitely aids how over the top and pulpy the villains and heists feel, and that's a big plus in my book.

Again, thanks for commenting and sharing your perspectives on the Sly games! While Sly 3 isn't my personal favorite of the trilogy, I can still see why others love it so much despite there being a few more low points in the game and missing some of the magic from Sly 2 in my eyes. Hope I was able to answer everything, and if not, feel free to ask more!
I can definitely see what you mean about the abundance of minigames here leading to a bit of a wedge in-between the missions (seriously, fuck that rooftop RC car mission, one of the many reasons Chapter 6 is the low point of the game), I guess it's just down to rather you'd have a game where it's like a grabbag of different activities, or mitigated to a select few event. 2 does have some pretty stellar ones though, while people (understandably) criticize the controls for the tank vehicle during Chapter 5 I actually thought it was pretty fun just driving around town and shooting at different things, certainly livened up the place (in fact that whole chapter had some great side-steps from the main platforming, like the one mission where you have to activate switches to stop enemies from reaching you that they reuse in S3), the RC Chopper stuff there are more exciting than the ones in 3 where they pretty much fluctuate in quality (I think for the latter they peaked with the Holland one where you yank stuff away), and there was that one turret section in S2, I think it was the final or near final mission, where you shoot at the dam and missiles. Very easy, but the setpiece of looking around the place during the hectic mania makes up for it.

Agreed with your assessment on the sandbox stuff, what makes it sting a smidge more is sad that 3's powerups are probably the best in the trilogy since it follows up on 2's improvements on having mostly active and a few passive abilities available, as well as actually enhance/benefit the player's kit unlike 1 where it's just littered with gimmicks. One of my favorites was getting a side-step ability for Sly as well as his spin attack upgrades, which made the game's combat practically near brawler status which was sick. Just wish that, again, the costs this time around weren't so questionably steep and/or you had more opportunities to get the cash needed.

I don't have much to say about the platforming point here, other than repeating what I said before where the enjoyment from the player comes from whether they like 2's or 3's approach and vision more.

Very commendable position about the story. I agree 1's writing is "pretty good" albeit with some surprisingly nice depth to it revolving around Clockwork and how he's integrated in both gameplay and story, and it's with 2 that it gets much better on multiple fronts. Though to divulge myself a bit, upon my last replay of the trilogy about half a decade ago, one thing that stood out to me when thinking it over was how 3 traded in 2's more overarching narrative and went back to 1's (semi-)episodic approach, which in hindsight makes its story feel a lot more personal, due to the villains this time around more so reflecting the character's current insecurity than being a large part of a gang, IE Octavio VS Murray, Tsao VS Panda King, etc etc. Granted not all of it works - I still kinda struggle with what exactly makes Black Baron work despite me liking Penelope a lot, and while Dr. M seems to be more of a metaphorical and emblematic stand-in for what Bentley might've been like had it not been for Sly treating him like an Actual Person, I do wish he still had more to do in the grand narrative regardless - but most of it works enough to stand on 2's high moments, and I agree it's the funniest entry in the series, to the point there's some comedic moments I can easily replay in my head to this day.

I don't really have much else to ask this time around, so thanks for responding back! I do love Sly 2 a lot to be clear, it's just easier for me to lapse into bitterness on its standing since I had to deal with pretty annoying opinions growing up, not helping that it was actually the last game in the PS2 trilogy I played. It's nice to have a friendly conversation on Backloggd since it tends to get... weirdly hostile in comparison to other peer-dominated aggregation sites.
also unrelated to all this, man I wish Backloggd works in a reply notification, or at least makes it a little more obvious it's available, I feel like I have to manually check and see if someone responded back and it's rather cumbersome

1 year ago

Glad I could be of service, it's always nice to chat with others about their favorite games and I like seeing different perspectives on what they like/didn't like and figuring out why things work or don't work. 100% agree that it's a bit annoying having to manually check back to see if others have responded to you and that a reply notification/command would help a ton. Again, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts regarding Sly 3, I really appreciate it and am always down to take any type of constructive criticism/critique or just talk gaming!