simply love this kinda working class industrial horror. starts off tonka souls then pulls the rug out and goes all in on daedalic technomazes, gloomy maintenance tunnels, and the kind of homogeneity that makes for the best kinda fevered n fraught navigation. very reminiscent of early 90s pc dungeon crawling, and very much a product of outsized ambitions and design choices; the kind of thing that punches well above its weight and isn't shy about bringing new ideas to the table. we should be thrilled that a developer best known for sludge like lords of the fallen was capable of this much growth in a three year span. that's fuckin sick dude, good on them
it's a shame no one seems to want to engage with it on its own terms, but the pitfall of wearing the mask of a clone is that you'll naturally be treated like one. there's a question of who's at fault here and to what extent, but the response seems especially heightened when it comes to the souls games. nearly every deviation here is done with deliberate intent, for better and worse, yet nearly all of them are treated as if deck13 misunderstands fromsoft, rather than granting even the faintest possibility that fromsoft's fanbase misunderstands deck13
iframes were reduced to bring a greater sense of dimension and purpose to spacing and positioning. limb targeting and its balance between armoured + unarmoured parts create a risk/reward situation where efficiency and economy are at odds with one another while solving the grind dilemma. guard break and overflow damage penalize poor stamina management. dial-a-combo strings provide situational offensive options and punish mashing. duck/hop reward pattern recognition with stylish defensive maneuvers. fast startups hint to get the fuck out of kissing range. and the list goes on. attempting to untangle the R1/O meta isn't easy (tanimura found that out too) but it's evident most of these choices draw directly from fighting games / 3D brawlers and try to shift the dynamic to one where the entire toolbox is equally utile and necessary. these aren't boneheaded mistakes, they're a conscious uprooting of the established verbset
now that doesn't mean you have to like any of it. you don't!! this isn't even really about whether the game's good or not but the strange refusal to consider other modes of exploring a similar foundation. browsing all the long winded steam reviews started to make me dizzy; all this time and all these words dedicated to an almost intentional misunderstanding of what was in front of them. I have infinitely more respect for the guy who says "naw this feels bad" than the guy who puts on their souls veteran uniform and postures as authority like a hall monitor
starting to wonder if any of these games will please an audience that doesn't particularly want to be pleased. it's very telling that Lies Of P's the standout fan favourite because it's the only one where if you close your eyes you could pretend it was miyazaki; a body pillow for ppl whose most formative life experience was beating the capra demon. even dark souls 2 gets berated for experimenting indulgently and drawing more from fromsoft's naotoshi zin era, so pretty much no one's safe. I don't envy anyone working in this space; you either make Demon's Souls 6 or you have to deal with immovably uncharitable weirdos with literally no interest in making adjustments outside their comfort zone
I guess it makes sense, souls fans always struggled with adaptability
it's a shame no one seems to want to engage with it on its own terms, but the pitfall of wearing the mask of a clone is that you'll naturally be treated like one. there's a question of who's at fault here and to what extent, but the response seems especially heightened when it comes to the souls games. nearly every deviation here is done with deliberate intent, for better and worse, yet nearly all of them are treated as if deck13 misunderstands fromsoft, rather than granting even the faintest possibility that fromsoft's fanbase misunderstands deck13
iframes were reduced to bring a greater sense of dimension and purpose to spacing and positioning. limb targeting and its balance between armoured + unarmoured parts create a risk/reward situation where efficiency and economy are at odds with one another while solving the grind dilemma. guard break and overflow damage penalize poor stamina management. dial-a-combo strings provide situational offensive options and punish mashing. duck/hop reward pattern recognition with stylish defensive maneuvers. fast startups hint to get the fuck out of kissing range. and the list goes on. attempting to untangle the R1/O meta isn't easy (tanimura found that out too) but it's evident most of these choices draw directly from fighting games / 3D brawlers and try to shift the dynamic to one where the entire toolbox is equally utile and necessary. these aren't boneheaded mistakes, they're a conscious uprooting of the established verbset
now that doesn't mean you have to like any of it. you don't!! this isn't even really about whether the game's good or not but the strange refusal to consider other modes of exploring a similar foundation. browsing all the long winded steam reviews started to make me dizzy; all this time and all these words dedicated to an almost intentional misunderstanding of what was in front of them. I have infinitely more respect for the guy who says "naw this feels bad" than the guy who puts on their souls veteran uniform and postures as authority like a hall monitor
starting to wonder if any of these games will please an audience that doesn't particularly want to be pleased. it's very telling that Lies Of P's the standout fan favourite because it's the only one where if you close your eyes you could pretend it was miyazaki; a body pillow for ppl whose most formative life experience was beating the capra demon. even dark souls 2 gets berated for experimenting indulgently and drawing more from fromsoft's naotoshi zin era, so pretty much no one's safe. I don't envy anyone working in this space; you either make Demon's Souls 6 or you have to deal with immovably uncharitable weirdos with literally no interest in making adjustments outside their comfort zone
I guess it makes sense, souls fans always struggled with adaptability
8 Comments
@MiraMiraOTW
thank you :)
I'd rank the clones in that order too. nioh is so perfectly aligned with all my tastes and preferences that I don't think anything will top it unless they make a third one, but this thing rules and I wish people were a little more open minded about it
thank you :)
I'd rank the clones in that order too. nioh is so perfectly aligned with all my tastes and preferences that I don't think anything will top it unless they make a third one, but this thing rules and I wish people were a little more open minded about it
describing souls fans as "hall monitors" captures their essence so perfectly.
also glad to have you as a Surge Soldier curse. one of my favorite games of all time.
also glad to have you as a Surge Soldier curse. one of my favorite games of all time.
Definitely with you on dunking those self-appointed Souls snobs who can't entertain any big break from the mold. It's like they have no appreciation for the winding paths that action-RPG design took before meeting in today's more predictable strains (Souls-likes, Ys, post-BoIsaac/RoRain roguelites, etc.). That trigger-finger tendency to dunk on "Souls clones" which heavily deviate from expectations, just for attempting to do so and make players uncomfortable, feels more and more reactionary whenever I see it. It's not like I expect everyone to know how tricky game development is and where things can unexpectedly go awry, but some benefit of the doubt usually doesn't hurt.
Then again, I'm one of the weirdos who likes (or can at least tolerate) the original Hydlide, so what do I fucking know
Then again, I'm one of the weirdos who likes (or can at least tolerate) the original Hydlide, so what do I fucking know
@pasokondeacon
they're robbing us of the hexens and strifes we deserve. benefit of the doubt is precious, and nothing good is gonna come thru taking such a rigorously standoffish stance against any kind of tinkering with expected and established parameters. if these games are gonna be major influencing factors in the future of action design (they are) I'd really like it if folks could give developers the space to work it out among themselves and take risks and try to rejig the whole thing. it's cool if you don't like it, but it sucks shit if you're gonna hold the genre at ransom cos of particularities you're not even willing to engage with enough to understand before hitting up your pulpit. like you said, to get to your ys, your demon's souls, your roguelites you gotta break some eggs. I wanna see those broken fuckin eggs
they're robbing us of the hexens and strifes we deserve. benefit of the doubt is precious, and nothing good is gonna come thru taking such a rigorously standoffish stance against any kind of tinkering with expected and established parameters. if these games are gonna be major influencing factors in the future of action design (they are) I'd really like it if folks could give developers the space to work it out among themselves and take risks and try to rejig the whole thing. it's cool if you don't like it, but it sucks shit if you're gonna hold the genre at ransom cos of particularities you're not even willing to engage with enough to understand before hitting up your pulpit. like you said, to get to your ys, your demon's souls, your roguelites you gotta break some eggs. I wanna see those broken fuckin eggs
this is a fucking excellent review, I'm so glad backloggd provides a platform for great write-ups like this that would have otherwise gotten buried in the Steam reviews.
as a staunch dark souls 2 apologist (pre-scholar and also pre-hbomberguy video, yes we do exist) I now feel obligated to try this out.
as a staunch dark souls 2 apologist (pre-scholar and also pre-hbomberguy video, yes we do exist) I now feel obligated to try this out.
@Jim_cjucag
thank you, that's really nice to hear. I can't guarantee you'll like it but I do think it's worth trying to meet half way. some of the choices it makes aren't the best, and others are an acquired taste, but it's an interesting game that has a lot of passion behind it
I'm 100% with you on ds2. game rules and my only regret is letting word of mouth stop me from trying it sooner than I did
thank you, that's really nice to hear. I can't guarantee you'll like it but I do think it's worth trying to meet half way. some of the choices it makes aren't the best, and others are an acquired taste, but it's an interesting game that has a lot of passion behind it
I'm 100% with you on ds2. game rules and my only regret is letting word of mouth stop me from trying it sooner than I did
MiraMiraOTW
3 months ago
Might be the funniest line on the website.
Either way, beautiful review, I'm always happy to see people give some love to this game, besides the Nioh series it's my favourite of the various Souls Clones.