Genuinely was not expecting to enjoy this game by the end. Sincerely doubted it, had to shelve it a few times to keep the strongest sense of charity going. And to be fair to part of Y0, I certainly was uncharitable towards that spirit at many points. Granted, Yakuza 0 really did not do me many favors.
Still, I do walk out of the end amazed by the final steps of the journey, where the game ultimately ties back to that central theme of becoming like a dragon in many many ways. Defining, redefining, and creating character rationale for that "way of the yakuza". Majima especially was the heart of the game that I centered myself around, being the particular character exploration that I found interesting. There's so many wonderful boys rock moments that I had to get in the jive for, as well as a few rare, but excellent energized and choreographed scenes. Presentation in general for Yakuza does not pull punches.
But god it was GRUELING for me to get that far. The ending gates of "holy shit it's finally coming together" is barred by actually just awful awful combat, so dysfunctional and a complete mess to try to take seriously that you might as well put it on Easy and chug health potions. And also some of the worst pacing I've had to set myself up to, and I've been playing some long rpgs lately!!! The beginning chapters, especially with Kiryu, are actual chores in setup and production, and even in the more well put together back half, there'll still be extraordinarily dumb moments because they simply did not know how to deal with a lot of the characters they just threw at you.
And to make matters worse for me, the game's more problematic elements were more than just sour points. Y0 will bend itself over backwards to force you into some substories and a lot of the humor blew right past me but the required ones had some deeply disgusting elements. I don't think a lot of it, or really any, could be said as malicious, but it's certainly very Japan culture to have the one black person you ever see for example be the 'mass murderer' in an underground fighting ring.
I lay this out on the table though, mostly because most people don't (yakuza twitter is a menace), but also because I do think the journey is worth trudging through. It should also be noted I came with my own biases too, because I'm just tired of years being near fratty bro culture (college years i was stuck with a lot of frat roommates) and as I transition I just am kind of averse to bro vibes first. So knowing that, and the fact that I still thought the last few hours were unparalled fucking A energy, I think people should at least give this one a shot.
Do actually like, skip the substories if the humor doesn't work for you like I did.
More misc thoughts:
-Kiryu extremely a hottie, made my SO swoon every time he was on camera. Still team majima though!!
-I really really liked the majima minigame. That was some seriously good down to earth dialogue with the girls and is maybe the only time Y0 has an even somewhat pleasant lens on women in the game. Emphasis on somewhat there's like 5 asterisks there.
-What is this game's obsession with <5f reactable tracking moves on bosses lol. I just laughed every time I found one and there were more than 5!
Still, I do walk out of the end amazed by the final steps of the journey, where the game ultimately ties back to that central theme of becoming like a dragon in many many ways. Defining, redefining, and creating character rationale for that "way of the yakuza". Majima especially was the heart of the game that I centered myself around, being the particular character exploration that I found interesting. There's so many wonderful boys rock moments that I had to get in the jive for, as well as a few rare, but excellent energized and choreographed scenes. Presentation in general for Yakuza does not pull punches.
But god it was GRUELING for me to get that far. The ending gates of "holy shit it's finally coming together" is barred by actually just awful awful combat, so dysfunctional and a complete mess to try to take seriously that you might as well put it on Easy and chug health potions. And also some of the worst pacing I've had to set myself up to, and I've been playing some long rpgs lately!!! The beginning chapters, especially with Kiryu, are actual chores in setup and production, and even in the more well put together back half, there'll still be extraordinarily dumb moments because they simply did not know how to deal with a lot of the characters they just threw at you.
And to make matters worse for me, the game's more problematic elements were more than just sour points. Y0 will bend itself over backwards to force you into some substories and a lot of the humor blew right past me but the required ones had some deeply disgusting elements. I don't think a lot of it, or really any, could be said as malicious, but it's certainly very Japan culture to have the one black person you ever see for example be the 'mass murderer' in an underground fighting ring.
I lay this out on the table though, mostly because most people don't (yakuza twitter is a menace), but also because I do think the journey is worth trudging through. It should also be noted I came with my own biases too, because I'm just tired of years being near fratty bro culture (college years i was stuck with a lot of frat roommates) and as I transition I just am kind of averse to bro vibes first. So knowing that, and the fact that I still thought the last few hours were unparalled fucking A energy, I think people should at least give this one a shot.
Do actually like, skip the substories if the humor doesn't work for you like I did.
More misc thoughts:
-Kiryu extremely a hottie, made my SO swoon every time he was on camera. Still team majima though!!
-I really really liked the majima minigame. That was some seriously good down to earth dialogue with the girls and is maybe the only time Y0 has an even somewhat pleasant lens on women in the game. Emphasis on somewhat there's like 5 asterisks there.
-What is this game's obsession with <5f reactable tracking moves on bosses lol. I just laughed every time I found one and there were more than 5!
10 Comments
oh gosh.......do i, once more, venture into the Yakuza breach.......
I personally think you’ll like it much less than I did :( but if you ever feel a need for some broish Boys Rock vibes I think you may ride the same highs I did.
Either way I think you’ll love Majima at the very least
Either way I think you’ll love Majima at the very least
the yakuza series has a lot of issues with women, even when it's at its best there's still an issue of women not having a whole hell of a lot of agency. as much as i love this series i do think the side stories are often trite, and im glad that someone who thinks positively of the game put out a review that actually highlights the shortcomings, because the game does stumble a lot unfortunately
What exactly was awful about the combat? The combat had been refined across the series for a decade in Y0, and I felt little in the ways of hiccups with it. Interested in what your problems were.
I think primarily, enemy design is just really bad. Lot of monstrous situations where enemies will eat blows and super armor through them without your knowledge that they’re capable of doing that for the first time. Lots of boss attacks that are unreactable and track, and several gimmick enemies like say: any one of them with a gun or particularly burly enemies that they want you to use a heat action are bring the pacing of any decent-feeling fight to a screeching halt.
Also in general your toolkit isn’t very interesting either. Flashy but you’re going to reuse the best heat attacks that do the most damage a lot so you’ll see the same animation over and over and over. This is mitigated by playing on Easy to where you can experiment more and just fuck around, but I honestly don’t find the fighting here kinetically satisfying at all. Skill tree has its problems too where there’s a few super interesting attacks locked behind money wall :/ so you might end up playing with a gimped kit for way too long.
I get that 0 is a significant refinement on everything that came before, but I find that so damning on the series as a whole. I now understand 100% why they went to turn-based. Keeps the vibe and kinesthetics while also allowing for easier consistency. Although from what some friends me, it has a whole suite of problems there too….
Also in general your toolkit isn’t very interesting either. Flashy but you’re going to reuse the best heat attacks that do the most damage a lot so you’ll see the same animation over and over and over. This is mitigated by playing on Easy to where you can experiment more and just fuck around, but I honestly don’t find the fighting here kinetically satisfying at all. Skill tree has its problems too where there’s a few super interesting attacks locked behind money wall :/ so you might end up playing with a gimped kit for way too long.
I get that 0 is a significant refinement on everything that came before, but I find that so damning on the series as a whole. I now understand 100% why they went to turn-based. Keeps the vibe and kinesthetics while also allowing for easier consistency. Although from what some friends me, it has a whole suite of problems there too….
Anyway I think to summarize, the combat has a major consistency problem with what moves of yours are safe on hit or block across enemies or even on the same enemy sometimes. And because of it I just could not take it seriously on any level
General mobs almost universally lack any sort of armour, outside the typical sluggish, fat bastard archetype. These moves are almost universally slow, being dodge and/or counter bait. Outside a certain endgame boss, armour is relegated to slow, easily recognisable attacks, or is granted to bosses as a get off me move. Once again though, even if the move is armoured, counters and heat moves still work. The burly enemies you mention are pretty much training fodder for your rushdown and crowd control styles.
I agree your kit for both characters isn't as expansive as it should be until many of the moves fettered behind the side progression mini-games are unlocked, but there's still a healthy diversity between styles.
I don't know. Outside exceptions that are too uncommon to be labelled the norm, I didn't endure the same issues you did. Never felt the need to crank down the difficulty level. Maybe this is a matter of differing play styles or myself merely being undiscerning & ignorant, but I encourage you to watch a video on the subject where the person playing doesn't just Tiger Drop a boss to death. You may find something you overlooked, or the game didn't make apparent.
I agree your kit for both characters isn't as expansive as it should be until many of the moves fettered behind the side progression mini-games are unlocked, but there's still a healthy diversity between styles.
I don't know. Outside exceptions that are too uncommon to be labelled the norm, I didn't endure the same issues you did. Never felt the need to crank down the difficulty level. Maybe this is a matter of differing play styles or myself merely being undiscerning & ignorant, but I encourage you to watch a video on the subject where the person playing doesn't just Tiger Drop a boss to death. You may find something you overlooked, or the game didn't make apparent.
I quite deliberately tested all my moves to check the frame data in the first chapter and found that almost all of the moves you had had inconsistent frame data on hit and block on the same enemy type? Also the general mooks DO have armor, they can have it for when they’re enraged or they’ll have it for very select moves (which is honestly more infuriating). I went and watched videos and they’ll just have armor on pretty fast <12f attacks. So I don’t really get this :/
Yeah Yakuza combat is a fucking mess outside of being a vehicle for animations and stuff. The way throws work has especially infuriated me for how it decides if a throw you've landed is even allowed to happen actually. Especially with how guarding works. Style switching a nice addition to Yakuza combat, Kiryu's styles are not for me. Anyways good review.
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One of the very first things you did was check the frame data consistency? I suppose we have different priorities and value different aspects in games.
ThisThingOfOurs
2 years ago