The Remake vs. Remaster vs. Reimagining debate
While I was zoning out today I started thinking back to how absurd the term JRPG is if you kinda think about it. It literally translates to "Japanese Role Play Games" even though a lot of games in that genre are not made in Japan like Undertale or even South Park The Stick Of Truth (Yes I've heard people call it a JRPG I don't get it either). But as soon as you try adding in games to the JRPG banner like Pokemon gamers will start throwing a hissy fit saying that a game like Pokemon has no place being in the same category as FF7 or Chrono Trigger. It just honestly shines a lot onto how lables made for games is a lot harder then with other mediums like books or movies; with video games you have such a wide variety of different games within subgenres inside of subgenres that at a certain point you just have to throw your hands up and just say "fuck it I'll do it myself"
This whole thought pattern reminded me of the stupid Remake vs Remaster argument that's been happening for awhile now and I feel like I wanna give in my two cents of the argument.
I'll be addng one game to each of the "subgenres" of what is technically lumped into either remasters, remakes, and reimaginings. Too be trying to luimp everything into one specific type of sub genre is a fruitless endeavor so I'm gonna try to put it them into something more akin to a color spectrum going from straight up ports to full on reimaginings.
If you wanna commant or suggest a game to be added to one of these 8 categories just add a short blurb on the game and why you think it fits in said categories and I'll add it in.
This whole thought pattern reminded me of the stupid Remake vs Remaster argument that's been happening for awhile now and I feel like I wanna give in my two cents of the argument.
I'll be addng one game to each of the "subgenres" of what is technically lumped into either remasters, remakes, and reimaginings. Too be trying to luimp everything into one specific type of sub genre is a fruitless endeavor so I'm gonna try to put it them into something more akin to a color spectrum going from straight up ports to full on reimaginings.
If you wanna commant or suggest a game to be added to one of these 8 categories just add a short blurb on the game and why you think it fits in said categories and I'll add it in.
9 Games
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At the very end of the spectrum you have basic ass ports. Versions of games released simultaneously on both current gen systems with little to no changes what so ever. With the case of GTA 5 it was relased in 2013 for both Xbox 360 and PS3 with little to do differences between the two.
(I'm not counting the 8th gen versions or the 9th gen versions I'm just using this base 2013 version as an example of a basic day 1 port.)
Commented Suggestions: Skyrim (CmdrZander)
At the very end of the spectrum you have basic ass ports. Versions of games released simultaneously on both current gen systems with little to no changes what so ever. With the case of GTA 5 it was relased in 2013 for both Xbox 360 and PS3 with little to do differences between the two.
(I'm not counting the 8th gen versions or the 9th gen versions I'm just using this base 2013 version as an example of a basic day 1 port.)
Commented Suggestions: Skyrim (CmdrZander)
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At this point we have Emulated Ports which are games ported over from older hardware but running on software made to emulate the game Instead of reworking the game to have it work on newer hardware. You can throw in other games in this section like the Mega Man Legacy Collection, the Castlevania Anniversary Collection, and of course Super Mario 3D All-Stars.
(You could make the argument about studios fucking up the emulation for said retro game ports making it worse to play then past versions of said games but I feel like that's a can of worms I don't have room for rn)
Commented Suggestions:
At this point we have Emulated Ports which are games ported over from older hardware but running on software made to emulate the game Instead of reworking the game to have it work on newer hardware. You can throw in other games in this section like the Mega Man Legacy Collection, the Castlevania Anniversary Collection, and of course Super Mario 3D All-Stars.
(You could make the argument about studios fucking up the emulation for said retro game ports making it worse to play then past versions of said games but I feel like that's a can of worms I don't have room for rn)
Commented Suggestions:
(๐๐จ๐ฆ๐ฉ๐๐ง๐ฌ๐๐ญ๐๐ ๐๐จ๐ซ๐ญ๐ฌ) recommended by Clearin
When a game released on two different pieces of hardware in the same genreation with one being overall different because it released on weaker hardware.
Immediate games that come to mind are Sonic Unleshed releasing on 6th gen systems while also releasing on 5th gen as well, along with Spider-Man Web of Shadows doing the same but the 5th gen games ended up being side scrollers rather then full open world games.
Commented Suggestions Splinter Cell Double Agent and The Urbz: Sims in the City (ZapRowsdower)
When a game released on two different pieces of hardware in the same genreation with one being overall different because it released on weaker hardware.
Immediate games that come to mind are Sonic Unleshed releasing on 6th gen systems while also releasing on 5th gen as well, along with Spider-Man Web of Shadows doing the same but the 5th gen games ended up being side scrollers rather then full open world games.
Commented Suggestions Splinter Cell Double Agent and The Urbz: Sims in the City (ZapRowsdower)
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With this section It's the rerelease of pre-existing games ported to newer hardware but is either reworked to function on newer hardware. This can include games like the Mega Man Anniversary Collection and the PS2 version of RE4.
or it's a rerelease of pre-existing games ported to the different system in the same genreation just with different visuals and more content. This games like Pikmin 3 Deluxe, Persona 5 Royal, or the PS2 version of RE4....again.
Commented Suggestions: Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, MGS1 Integral, MGS2 and 3 Subsistence, Resident Evil: Director's Cut, Megaman 8 for Saturn (MrHoodie)
With this section It's the rerelease of pre-existing games ported to newer hardware but is either reworked to function on newer hardware. This can include games like the Mega Man Anniversary Collection and the PS2 version of RE4.
or it's a rerelease of pre-existing games ported to the different system in the same genreation just with different visuals and more content. This games like Pikmin 3 Deluxe, Persona 5 Royal, or the PS2 version of RE4....again.
Commented Suggestions: Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, MGS1 Integral, MGS2 and 3 Subsistence, Resident Evil: Director's Cut, Megaman 8 for Saturn (MrHoodie)
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This one is pretty self-explanatory. It's the same game from older systems just brought over with updated textures and smoother frame rates. This can be the case for games like Gow3 Remastered,
Shadow of The Colossus Remaster, Mafia 2: Definitive Edition, and The Wind Waker HD.
Commented Suggestions: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age, Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD Remaster, Resonance of Fate 4k/HD Edition, Fatal Frame: Mask of the Lunar Eclipse, Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII - Reunion (MrHoodie)
This one is pretty self-explanatory. It's the same game from older systems just brought over with updated textures and smoother frame rates. This can be the case for games like Gow3 Remastered,
Shadow of The Colossus Remaster, Mafia 2: Definitive Edition, and The Wind Waker HD.
Commented Suggestions: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age, Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD Remaster, Resonance of Fate 4k/HD Edition, Fatal Frame: Mask of the Lunar Eclipse, Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII - Reunion (MrHoodie)
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With this section it's for games that are built from the ground up just to recreate the same game beat for beat with little to no changes to the overall game besides maybe some general control tweaks and minimal quality of life changes.
This seems to be the one that most remakes seem to go for the most with game's like the Crash N. Sane Trilogy, Linkโs Awakening Remake, MediEvil on PS4, Battle for Bikini Bottom rehydrated, or the Spyro Reignited Trilogy.
Commented Suggestions: Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei, SMT1-If for PS1, Advance Wars Remake (MrHoodie)
Metroid Prime Remastered (Weatherby)
Pokรฉmon FireRed/LeafGreen (LEGObrionicle)
With this section it's for games that are built from the ground up just to recreate the same game beat for beat with little to no changes to the overall game besides maybe some general control tweaks and minimal quality of life changes.
This seems to be the one that most remakes seem to go for the most with game's like the Crash N. Sane Trilogy, Linkโs Awakening Remake, MediEvil on PS4, Battle for Bikini Bottom rehydrated, or the Spyro Reignited Trilogy.
Commented Suggestions: Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei, SMT1-If for PS1, Advance Wars Remake (MrHoodie)
Metroid Prime Remastered (Weatherby)
Pokรฉmon FireRed/LeafGreen (LEGObrionicle)
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Remakes of game that still take from the core of their original games but try experimenting more with the overall design and style letting the remake stand out more as it's own unique beast while still sharing DNA with the original.
Games I feel fall into this section are RE1 Remake, Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty, Ocarina of Time 3D, and Mafia: Definitive Edition.
Commented Suggestions: Castlevania Chronicles (PhantomJack) Nier Replicant Ver 1.22, FFIII and FFIV DS, Mega Man Powered Up, Metroid: Zero Mission, Postal Redux (MrHoodie)
Pokรฉmon HeartGold/SoulSilver (LEGObrionicle)
Remakes of game that still take from the core of their original games but try experimenting more with the overall design and style letting the remake stand out more as it's own unique beast while still sharing DNA with the original.
Games I feel fall into this section are RE1 Remake, Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty, Ocarina of Time 3D, and Mafia: Definitive Edition.
Commented Suggestions: Castlevania Chronicles (PhantomJack) Nier Replicant Ver 1.22, FFIII and FFIV DS, Mega Man Powered Up, Metroid: Zero Mission, Postal Redux (MrHoodie)
Pokรฉmon HeartGold/SoulSilver (LEGObrionicle)
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Games that feel completely different then their original games only using the original game's core premise as a jumping off point. The original game's overall feel can still be seen in little spurts here and there but overall these can be qualified as brand new games.
The Games I feel fall into this section the most are FF7 remake (obviously), RE2 Remake, Ratchet and Clank 2016, Star Fox 64, and Metroid: Samus Returns.
Commented Suggestions: Super Castlevania IV (PhantomJack)
Silent Hill Shattered Memories (ZapRowsdower)
Black Mesa (MrHoodie)
Pokรฉmon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire (LEGObrionicle)
Games that feel completely different then their original games only using the original game's core premise as a jumping off point. The original game's overall feel can still be seen in little spurts here and there but overall these can be qualified as brand new games.
The Games I feel fall into this section the most are FF7 remake (obviously), RE2 Remake, Ratchet and Clank 2016, Star Fox 64, and Metroid: Samus Returns.
Commented Suggestions: Super Castlevania IV (PhantomJack)
Silent Hill Shattered Memories (ZapRowsdower)
Black Mesa (MrHoodie)
Pokรฉmon Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire (LEGObrionicle)
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A whole beast of it's own.
This is the case where it can shares little to no connection to the original game's it's basing itself off from. Rather having all it's own DNA only sharing characters and the serie's name.
Games that fall into this highest section are DmC: Devil May Cry, Tomb Raider 2013, Splatterhouse 2010, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, and The Legend of Spyro: A New Beginning.
Commented Suggestions: MK9, MK1, Bomberman Act Zero, Alone in the Dark 2008 (MrHoodie)
A whole beast of it's own.
This is the case where it can shares little to no connection to the original game's it's basing itself off from. Rather having all it's own DNA only sharing characters and the serie's name.
Games that fall into this highest section are DmC: Devil May Cry, Tomb Raider 2013, Splatterhouse 2010, Castlevania: Lords of Shadow, and The Legend of Spyro: A New Beginning.
Commented Suggestions: MK9, MK1, Bomberman Act Zero, Alone in the Dark 2008 (MrHoodie)
12 Comments
@CmdrZander
Where would you put them among the 8 sections?
Where would you put them among the 8 sections?
I'm sorry, I totally missed the notes. I'd definitely put RE2 over FF7. The FF series never hooked me. Basic ass port would have to be Skyrim for the joke of being ported to everything with basically zero changes for 12 years.
@CmdrZander
Alright thanks
Alright thanks
for enhanced ports: Sonic Adventure 2 Battle MGS1 Integral, MGS2 and 3 Subsistence, Resident Evil: Director's Cut, Megaman 8 for Saturn
for remasters: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age, Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD Remaster, Resonance of Fate 4k/HD Edition, Fatal Frame: Mask of the Lunar Eclipse, Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII - Reunion
For Beat for Beat Remakes: Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei, SMT1-If for PS1, Advance Wars Remake
Full Blown Remakes: Nier Replicant Ver 1.22, FFIII and FFIV DS, Mega Man Powered Up, Metroid: Zero Mission, Postal Redux,
reimagining's: Silent Hill Shattered Memories, Black Mesa (depending on who you ask it may also go in full blown remakes instead)
Reboot: MK9/2011, MK11, Bomberman Act Zero, Alone in the Dark 2008
for remasters: Final Fantasy XII: The Zodiac Age, Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD Remaster, Resonance of Fate 4k/HD Edition, Fatal Frame: Mask of the Lunar Eclipse, Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII - Reunion
For Beat for Beat Remakes: Kyuuyaku Megami Tensei, SMT1-If for PS1, Advance Wars Remake
Full Blown Remakes: Nier Replicant Ver 1.22, FFIII and FFIV DS, Mega Man Powered Up, Metroid: Zero Mission, Postal Redux,
reimagining's: Silent Hill Shattered Memories, Black Mesa (depending on who you ask it may also go in full blown remakes instead)
Reboot: MK9/2011, MK11, Bomberman Act Zero, Alone in the Dark 2008
My hot take is that Metroid Prime Remastered is a (beat-for-beat) remake. Some of the original code was used, but it was also run through a new engine and the visuals are completely remodeled. I've gotten push back for this opinion because it "plays exactly the same, they didn't change anything," but I feel like that's saying the Psycho remake is a remaster because it was done shot-for-shot.
@Weatherby
If that's the case then yes it 100% goes into Beat for Beat Remakes
If that's the case then yes it 100% goes into Beat for Beat Remakes
now you got me thinking about Pokรฉmonโฆ FireRed/LeafGreen are beat-for-beat (does an added post-game change that, though?) HeartGold and SoulSilver arenโt beat-for-beat, though because of added scenario changes from Crystal Version and other enhancements like the Safari Zoneโs addition and the Kanto region being more fleshed out.
Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire feel like the closest to re-imaginings instead of remakes because of how mega-evolution changes the story scenario, even regardless of the post-gameโs complete reimagining of Emerald Versionโs scenario.
Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire feel like the closest to re-imaginings instead of remakes because of how mega-evolution changes the story scenario, even regardless of the post-gameโs complete reimagining of Emerald Versionโs scenario.
@LEGObrionicle
I think it's for something like FireRed/LeafGreen it's pretty close to beat for beat because besides the end game content it's still roughly the same game just rebuilt.
HeartGold and SoulSilver would going into the full blown remake since it's still has the same DNA as it's original game but with all the new content and changed scenario means it's can't go near beat for beat.
I have played Omega Ruby so I can vouch on your behalf that it goes into reimagininged because it changes so much of what Ruby and Sapphire did that it pretty much just became a new game.
I think it's for something like FireRed/LeafGreen it's pretty close to beat for beat because besides the end game content it's still roughly the same game just rebuilt.
HeartGold and SoulSilver would going into the full blown remake since it's still has the same DNA as it's original game but with all the new content and changed scenario means it's can't go near beat for beat.
I have played Omega Ruby so I can vouch on your behalf that it goes into reimagininged because it changes so much of what Ruby and Sapphire did that it pretty much just became a new game.
Semi off-topic but I always associate JRPGs with 1) (relative) lack of choice when it comes to character customization and narrative, 2) focus on narrative over gameplay, 3) relatively easy default difficulty and 4) inspiration from anime, manga and other JRPGs rather than from Lord of the Rings and Dungeons & Dragons. Pokemon sits kind of in between CRPGs/WRPGs and JRPGs, as it shares 1) and 2) in common with WRPGs and 3) and 4) in common with JRPGs.
CmdrZander
10 months ago