Imagine thinking Bloodborne's combat is mid

@WitchyKing66 seeing a lot of assassins creed, Batman and Lego games in your catalog and not too many dedicated action games. Try Bayo/DMC?

I don't log every game I play, I've played DMC, its combat isn't even close to Bloodborne's

Do you log every LEGO game you play though or..?
Which DMC?

@WitchyKing66 Bloodborne's combat serves the game okay but it's pretty uninteresting by itself. Combat in BB (and all of souls) is engaging largely because there are bad consequences for fucking up. If you removed level progression / echoes and just had waves of enemies to dodge and hit repeatedly, I think you'd find it pretty boring. Can't really say this for most good dedicated action games like Bayonetta bc the game is basically just raw combat anyway. Things like progression / leveling exist but in bare form compared to BB. You should give it a shot, maybe you'll like it.

"If you fundamentally rewrote everything that made Bloodborne's combat so interesting compared to other games, it'd be uninteresting" - Appreciate these insights, thanks

@WitchyKing66 Think that's unfair. I'm talking about a specific aspect to the game: the combat. Trying to isolate aspects of a game is never possible but the attempt can be useful to figure out what is good and bad about a game. I think the combat is mid. You claim you don't. But when I ask you to imagine BB without level progression / echoes, you say I'm removing everything about the combat that makes it interesting lol. Sounds like you think it's mid too.

But the RPG elements are a fundamental aspect of the game's combat system, as they tie implicitly to the trick weapons, and the ways in which you can customise them, and thus how they even operate in a combat setting.

Most games would become dull if the combat became aimless and purposeless, as combat has evolved far beyond the days of games like classic Doom, where you just fight waves aimlessly as the core gameplay loop.

@WitchyKing66 You say RPG elements change "how [trick weapons] even operate in a combat setting."

What are you talking about? RPG elements interact with the trick weapons in two ways:
1. Set a bool for whether one can use the weapon.
2. Change damage done.
That's it. They don't interact meaningfully with the trick weapons. Further, on just a single playthrough there are so many echoes that you can just level everything without harming your ability to get through the game at all.

When I was referring to how the rpg elements interact with combat, I was talking about how the limited resources provide a bad consequence for death (you lose echoes). This bad consequence is ultimately just making you play the game for more time. It does provide a good motivator, largely bc the combat is mid.

No that's not true, you can literally change your entire damage type with the RPG elements, I.e, do you want to use the Logarius wheel with abyssal blood gems, dealing high arcane damage to beasts and whatnot, but getting fucked up by Kin, or do you want to invest straight into strength, and have it so that you'll smash the fuck out of Kin enemies, but might struggle more with regular enemies.

This is how RPGs have worked fundamentally since their meaningful inception, so to criticise this aspect of the game is bizarre.

Secondly, no, you can't just upgrade anything without harming your ability to get through the game, because the RPG elements make up only one portion of the combat, the other is being a skillful player, something I am going to guess that you are not, as getting good at this game's combat system, purely on a mechanical basis alone, is extremely rewarding. The trick weapons are designed with such specificity in mind that you're encouraged to find which trick weapon moveset is comfortable for you, and this will vary from player to player. This notion that you can just upgrade any of them and get through the game fine is a very strange dismissal of the skill required to operate them effectively.

Also, you keep saying 'Bloodborne's combat is mid' and then just go on to criticise the RPG elements, without discussing the mechanical aspect of the combat itself, further proving that this review is, quite frankly, useless.

@WitchyKing66
Your first paragraph talks about how much damage you do, i.e. point 2. Change damage done.

Laughing at your assessment that I am bad at this game because I was able to level everything without having too much trouble getting through the entire game and DLC, while it sounds like you weren't. This wasn't my first souls game; I know how to play them. It is very simple to learn how to play these games. Afterwards, it's just a test in patience.

It seems like you are used to complaints that these games are too hard. I do not feel that way. I just think the combat doesn't have the depth to justify how much of the game is just combat. Weapons may feel different on a surface level, but there isn't nearly as much variety and depth as any dedicated action game. In BB, your moves provoke either a stun or no stun. Which means you either can follow up or you can't. Pretty simple. Play Bayo; play DMC; play ninja gaiden; play MGR; play viewtiful joe; all of these games offer much more interesting and rewarding combat.

Is BB's combat better than the absolute worst the medium has to offer (e.g. batman games)? Yes. But it's still mid.

'In BB, your moves provoke either a stun or no stun. Which means you either can follow up or you can't. Pretty simple.' - This line by itself summarises why I believe you have no idea what you're talking about. This is a game where a frame or two can be the difference between living or dying, where every commitment to an animation is a choice, you can't just break yourself out of these animations like you can in most games, they are small, tiny decisions which can and do regularly act as a major deciding factor as to whether you are successful in combat or not. Just the difference between the Saw Spear and Saw Cleaver's trick weapon timing along has a vastly different feel to it in the heat of combat, and these are two weapons that are identical in most other respects.

You saying that the variety of choice in combat comes down to 'stun or don't stun,' is extremely deluded, and you're providing absolutely no meaningful discussion beyond plugging other games, and there are several thousand other actual reviews of this game on here that I could be engaging with so I'm gonna leave it there now.

Ta for the review, keep up the good work.

@WitchyKing66 Maybe the reason you seem to struggle with these games is that you are conceptualizing the combat as more complicated than it is. When I say a weapon imparts stun or no stun, that isn't a choice really. The game dictates that. But, if my enemy is staggered, I go for another hit. If not, I dodge until there is another opening. This is simple. Doesn't make it always easy though. Requires execution and patience. Can be okay for a while, but is, ultimately, mid.

Anyway, thanks for the fun discussion. Sad to see you go.