I had a playthrough while using the P4G Community Enhancement Pack - which, while I recommend as a great way to play be it for the first time or returning, I should point to its new FAQ regarding the recent Steam update to 64Bit for added information - but it's been a few years and my drive to continue the replay has swelled up, so I don't see it happening for a while. I have been racking my brain about it this morning though, so I at least wanted to get my thoughts out once it clouded my mind during work. Consider this an off the cuff ramble instead of a structured review, especially since I think most people have uh, already said what I want to illuminate which I'll highlight when I get to them.
Persona 4 is game I've had a turbulent relationship with. First I thought it - as in, the OG PS2 release - was a major step down than Persona 3 FES, then followed up by thinking it was the weakest of the nu-trilogy once I finished Persona 5 vanilla. Then I tried replaying it via Golden after my honeymoon with P5 and I realized it was a big mess that didn't know what it wanted to be, and I ended up really liking it more. Bit of time passed and now my passion for it is waning to the point it's good but I kinda don't want to think about it much. This has resulted in very different scores, where this now stands as to where it is now instead of the 8/10 I once had it on. Some of you are probably thinking this has to do with THE DISCOURSE, and while I don't shy away from saying that I fucking hate it and consider it to be a major annoyance that I avoid as much as possible like the Xeno series, that's not a part of it, especially since to reiterate, I think people within it have said some good points I agree with. Still, lemme talk about what I still like first. I find the dungeon design to be alright, definitely could've been more to it and I'm not a fan of every dungeon such as Void Quest and Secret Laboratory, but applying the randomization element Tartarus had onto more linear dungeon crawling is cool, and they make each one distinct in vibe and aesthetics similar to how that sprawling tower did it with each 10-story flooring. I still like some of the characters, Nanako's one of the more enjoyable child characters, and her dad Ryotaro Dojima is a big favorite in terms of Dads Doing Their Best archetypes, and even characters I didn't like before, such as Teddie, Rise, and Kanji, grew on me after ruminating and delving more into what they are and how they work within the context of the game.
As for the Golden side of the equation, while I do agree some of its additions harm the game more than help it - again, we'll get to those.... - I also think it's silly to act like the changes are akin to the ones found in Ninja Gaiden Sigma or even in its own series, Persona 3 Portable. Those are versions that strip or erroneously adjust the base game's content into something that's now different from it entirely, despite them by itself still being adequate. This is still the same P4 ethos, regardless on its added content, which is why I'm comfortable giving both versions the same score. With that out of the way, I find its rebalancing (why Chie's attacks and Bufu spells were never implemented as they were in the original's first dungeon despite their thematical and mechanical importance is something I'll always question), new elements such as hanging out at night, gardening, expanded months, an added bad ending to tie into one of the new SLs that I also very much enjoy, and some of the events like the School Concert are all welcome additions to the story that spice it up. Also, all cards on the table, I find Marie to be the single best addition in this rerelease. The fact that a character who's completely and utterly optional yet also reinforces the game's themes of facing and coming to terms with yourself has become the scapegoat to all the baffling and bad choices Golden makes is genuinely insane, and makes it seem like these detractors don't want to have an active discussion about WHY this version harms the original's vision. I'd rather see the stuff about this having less fog due to using a new engine instead of RenderWare, or having one of the literal worst title screen downgrades than see the regurgitation on what are honestly memepoint critiques.
However, Golden very much does shit I do not like. Operation Babe Hunt Redux? A new beach being added in, alongside Okina City being explorable? The pointless Scooters and Halloween event? Some ""jokes"" that crop up because of all that? Yea, those are all Golden originals. Far from the first to say it, but this really does harm P4's distinct, rural atmosphere of chilling in a small, pocketed town where going outside of it feel like major events instead of a quick hop and a skip over on the road. Also, since I never really found P4 to be that funny of a game for reasons I'm sure you're already aware of, the double down on this aspect not only worsens the milquetoast comedy, and it not only makes the already awful Camping Trip and School Festival sequences stand out much more from this heightened appearance, it also makes the already troubling pacing even more of a slog. Adding another deck onto the table, I find myself agreeing with those that say Persona 4 does not, in a majority of the time, benefit from adopting P3's calendar system. That game utilizes its mechanics for maximum story and character-driven moments, and while we can sit here and argue all day about whether or not those in themselves are good, it's safe to say it was built with those in mind. P4 (and P5, but since most of my ire originates here...) doesn't really add or make tweaks to the formula that justifies it. Yea, I like the final third as much as the next guy, but it doesn't justify the first third (April->Early June) dragging its heels teaching you things and ideas in a way that feels jittery and unnatural by comparison, and a chunk of the second third (July and August) contributing so little of value to the overall story despite its tangent and twist being sound. Now, P3's pacing wasn't perfect either and it also has moments of dead air, but P4 accentuates the flaws of the calendar that makes the stop-and-go feel of the pacing worse to experience.
As for the rest of the cast, they're aggressively adequate. Yosuke has the most obnoxious bits in the game, but I find his arc and stake within the serious moments to be pretty good. Chie's fine, I think she's rather enjoyable but she's also flanderized too much for me which again, Golden unfortunately doesn't try to remedy. Yukiko... man, if there's a character that showcases the disconnect of the Party SLink to the main story, she's the one. The problem with her is that her arc of realizing that there's ways she can contribute to her role as the successor to her family that isn't strictly within the rigid lifestyle felt like it skipped several rungs of the "she want to break free from the tight shackles and try to make do with her own sense of being and free will" point it started as. Like, I get it's supposed to be the endpoint, but it feels unnatural as to how she got there, if that makes sense. Naoto? Well, I dunno how to state my opinion of her without SOMEONE being set off, so I'll just leave it as "I like her but I also understand the way she gets presented should've been handled much better". The rest of the SLinks follow a similar philosophy here, in that while P3 had higher highs yet low lows and P5 I actually remember so little confidants over, P4 has some consistently mundane yet overall decent ones. I like the Death, Moon, Sun (the Drama side, Band side is... a thing) and Temperance people, plus Strength (either/or) is kinda neat, but the Tower, Hanged Man, and Devil people leave a lot to be desired. Skipped out on Hermit or Empress due to their unique structure, but they're pretty alright as well.
You're probably wondering why I still have this at a 7/10 when it reads a smidge lower than that, and that's cause alongside some more personal reasons, HiTheHello and straylight more than point out that when this game does a good job, it really knocks it out. I love Inaba as a setting, the core dungeon loop despite having some wonkiness to it is still a lot of fun to try and do as little time as possible, and the bubblegum J-Pop OST is still something that lingers in my mind. Not that it was any real competition, but this also far and away has the best human antagonist of the nu-trilogy (I'LL GET TO PERSONA 1 AND THE 2 DUOLOGY SOMEDAY), that I'll refrain from gushing about on the off chance someone reading this is unspoiled on the plot. I seriously have to stress that I do like the good elements in here a lot, and things that I already praised before are still true. It's just, damn! I don't like how messy this one is!! It makes me very conflicted. I get why this of all Persona games was the one to invigorate people though. Even outside of super-personal mantras - which, hey, I very much get - the core aspect of this is something I can very much see meaning a lot to someone. Now, I have this shelved, so it means I'll return to it at some point... but I'm not really sure when. Also unsure if I'll do a proper review, cause I think I said all I wanted with this journal entry.
Persona 4 is game I've had a turbulent relationship with. First I thought it - as in, the OG PS2 release - was a major step down than Persona 3 FES, then followed up by thinking it was the weakest of the nu-trilogy once I finished Persona 5 vanilla. Then I tried replaying it via Golden after my honeymoon with P5 and I realized it was a big mess that didn't know what it wanted to be, and I ended up really liking it more. Bit of time passed and now my passion for it is waning to the point it's good but I kinda don't want to think about it much. This has resulted in very different scores, where this now stands as to where it is now instead of the 8/10 I once had it on. Some of you are probably thinking this has to do with THE DISCOURSE, and while I don't shy away from saying that I fucking hate it and consider it to be a major annoyance that I avoid as much as possible like the Xeno series, that's not a part of it, especially since to reiterate, I think people within it have said some good points I agree with. Still, lemme talk about what I still like first. I find the dungeon design to be alright, definitely could've been more to it and I'm not a fan of every dungeon such as Void Quest and Secret Laboratory, but applying the randomization element Tartarus had onto more linear dungeon crawling is cool, and they make each one distinct in vibe and aesthetics similar to how that sprawling tower did it with each 10-story flooring. I still like some of the characters, Nanako's one of the more enjoyable child characters, and her dad Ryotaro Dojima is a big favorite in terms of Dads Doing Their Best archetypes, and even characters I didn't like before, such as Teddie, Rise, and Kanji, grew on me after ruminating and delving more into what they are and how they work within the context of the game.
As for the Golden side of the equation, while I do agree some of its additions harm the game more than help it - again, we'll get to those.... - I also think it's silly to act like the changes are akin to the ones found in Ninja Gaiden Sigma or even in its own series, Persona 3 Portable. Those are versions that strip or erroneously adjust the base game's content into something that's now different from it entirely, despite them by itself still being adequate. This is still the same P4 ethos, regardless on its added content, which is why I'm comfortable giving both versions the same score. With that out of the way, I find its rebalancing (why Chie's attacks and Bufu spells were never implemented as they were in the original's first dungeon despite their thematical and mechanical importance is something I'll always question), new elements such as hanging out at night, gardening, expanded months, an added bad ending to tie into one of the new SLs that I also very much enjoy, and some of the events like the School Concert are all welcome additions to the story that spice it up. Also, all cards on the table, I find Marie to be the single best addition in this rerelease. The fact that a character who's completely and utterly optional yet also reinforces the game's themes of facing and coming to terms with yourself has become the scapegoat to all the baffling and bad choices Golden makes is genuinely insane, and makes it seem like these detractors don't want to have an active discussion about WHY this version harms the original's vision. I'd rather see the stuff about this having less fog due to using a new engine instead of RenderWare, or having one of the literal worst title screen downgrades than see the regurgitation on what are honestly memepoint critiques.
However, Golden very much does shit I do not like. Operation Babe Hunt Redux? A new beach being added in, alongside Okina City being explorable? The pointless Scooters and Halloween event? Some ""jokes"" that crop up because of all that? Yea, those are all Golden originals. Far from the first to say it, but this really does harm P4's distinct, rural atmosphere of chilling in a small, pocketed town where going outside of it feel like major events instead of a quick hop and a skip over on the road. Also, since I never really found P4 to be that funny of a game for reasons I'm sure you're already aware of, the double down on this aspect not only worsens the milquetoast comedy, and it not only makes the already awful Camping Trip and School Festival sequences stand out much more from this heightened appearance, it also makes the already troubling pacing even more of a slog. Adding another deck onto the table, I find myself agreeing with those that say Persona 4 does not, in a majority of the time, benefit from adopting P3's calendar system. That game utilizes its mechanics for maximum story and character-driven moments, and while we can sit here and argue all day about whether or not those in themselves are good, it's safe to say it was built with those in mind. P4 (and P5, but since most of my ire originates here...) doesn't really add or make tweaks to the formula that justifies it. Yea, I like the final third as much as the next guy, but it doesn't justify the first third (April->Early June) dragging its heels teaching you things and ideas in a way that feels jittery and unnatural by comparison, and a chunk of the second third (July and August) contributing so little of value to the overall story despite its tangent and twist being sound. Now, P3's pacing wasn't perfect either and it also has moments of dead air, but P4 accentuates the flaws of the calendar that makes the stop-and-go feel of the pacing worse to experience.
As for the rest of the cast, they're aggressively adequate. Yosuke has the most obnoxious bits in the game, but I find his arc and stake within the serious moments to be pretty good. Chie's fine, I think she's rather enjoyable but she's also flanderized too much for me which again, Golden unfortunately doesn't try to remedy. Yukiko... man, if there's a character that showcases the disconnect of the Party SLink to the main story, she's the one. The problem with her is that her arc of realizing that there's ways she can contribute to her role as the successor to her family that isn't strictly within the rigid lifestyle felt like it skipped several rungs of the "she want to break free from the tight shackles and try to make do with her own sense of being and free will" point it started as. Like, I get it's supposed to be the endpoint, but it feels unnatural as to how she got there, if that makes sense. Naoto? Well, I dunno how to state my opinion of her without SOMEONE being set off, so I'll just leave it as "I like her but I also understand the way she gets presented should've been handled much better". The rest of the SLinks follow a similar philosophy here, in that while P3 had higher highs yet low lows and P5 I actually remember so little confidants over, P4 has some consistently mundane yet overall decent ones. I like the Death, Moon, Sun (the Drama side, Band side is... a thing) and Temperance people, plus Strength (either/or) is kinda neat, but the Tower, Hanged Man, and Devil people leave a lot to be desired. Skipped out on Hermit or Empress due to their unique structure, but they're pretty alright as well.
You're probably wondering why I still have this at a 7/10 when it reads a smidge lower than that, and that's cause alongside some more personal reasons, HiTheHello and straylight more than point out that when this game does a good job, it really knocks it out. I love Inaba as a setting, the core dungeon loop despite having some wonkiness to it is still a lot of fun to try and do as little time as possible, and the bubblegum J-Pop OST is still something that lingers in my mind. Not that it was any real competition, but this also far and away has the best human antagonist of the nu-trilogy (I'LL GET TO PERSONA 1 AND THE 2 DUOLOGY SOMEDAY), that I'll refrain from gushing about on the off chance someone reading this is unspoiled on the plot. I seriously have to stress that I do like the good elements in here a lot, and things that I already praised before are still true. It's just, damn! I don't like how messy this one is!! It makes me very conflicted. I get why this of all Persona games was the one to invigorate people though. Even outside of super-personal mantras - which, hey, I very much get - the core aspect of this is something I can very much see meaning a lot to someone. Now, I have this shelved, so it means I'll return to it at some point... but I'm not really sure when. Also unsure if I'll do a proper review, cause I think I said all I wanted with this journal entry.
14 Comments
@FallenGrace Yea the PS3/360 era for JRPGs was kind of tumultuous, at least in terms of bigger hits. I've seen some more obscure or overlooked ones getting some mentioned that I have backlogged, but it's a little undeniable it got a blow in terms of quality and popularity (especially since this was also when Western philosophies started to seep into the marketplace and caused a whole other mess of things). Can totally understand how something like this can help reinvigorate people that fell off. This also reminds me I still need to continue Trails 1... it's long and I do agree it overtutorializes and worldbuilds stuff, but I like what I've seen of it - and Ys 1 for that matter - so I'll find time to push onward.
I like Yosuke in concept. Having a more rambunctious, words first thoughts second teen makes sense considering the setting, and as I said I like his SLink arc. It's just, wow, they gave him the absolute worst material in terms of jokes and treatment to some of the cast when it comes to the main story, especially Kanji. Sure it wears off as it goes on, but like... doesn't change the fact you have to deal with him being Like That for a good while lol. Reading that there was dummied out romance content in regards to him, which subsequently received a mod restoration, does make his ordeal a bit more sense, but again, it's dummied out, so he just comes off as a rude prick in regards to those scenes unfortunately.
I like Yosuke in concept. Having a more rambunctious, words first thoughts second teen makes sense considering the setting, and as I said I like his SLink arc. It's just, wow, they gave him the absolute worst material in terms of jokes and treatment to some of the cast when it comes to the main story, especially Kanji. Sure it wears off as it goes on, but like... doesn't change the fact you have to deal with him being Like That for a good while lol. Reading that there was dummied out romance content in regards to him, which subsequently received a mod restoration, does make his ordeal a bit more sense, but again, it's dummied out, so he just comes off as a rude prick in regards to those scenes unfortunately.
There are some games in that gen for sure but compared with the PS2 before? It was like a wasteland. A lot moved to DS and I just struggled with the tiny screen sadly, I bought plenty but only made it through a few on there.
Persona 4 Golden though, great game but heavily flawed. I bought the PS4 port recently I'm just not sure how well an older me would feel about a lot of the story beats now so I have been putting off playing it as I suspect I won't enjoy it anywhere near as much as when I played it 10 years ago.
Persona 4 Golden though, great game but heavily flawed. I bought the PS4 port recently I'm just not sure how well an older me would feel about a lot of the story beats now so I have been putting off playing it as I suspect I won't enjoy it anywhere near as much as when I played it 10 years ago.
I think playing this for the first one was like a litmus test on how much I can endure certain "anime" tropes and writing choices until it piles up so much that I'm suffocating underneath its massively unimpressive girth. Also I'm a huge stickler for voice acting and localizing/dubbing when it comes to these kinds of games which this didn't quite love up to me sad to say.
Wow I was actually discussing this game with my friend last night haha. I love P4G but I stopped around the summer vacation arc (because of personal things happening) and I just haven't been able to pick it up despite enjoying it so much. I really wanna pick it back up maybe this summer because I think I got pretty far (at least 1/3rd? 1/2?). great review btw! I do agree w your points here, I find P4 a heavily flawed game but still a good one at that :)
@Deadpan Yea, the anime tropes P4 and 5 dabble in are on the middle/lower end of the cliches is one of the reasons I don't find it as funny as P3 or what I've seen of P2, which focus on the 90s and early 2000s-era trends. The dubbing side also could've been better yea, I like some of the English VAs (poor Chie never got a good actress though RIP) but comparing them when the Steam port finally allowed for dual audio made it night and day, to the point I don't think I can go back.
@Reddish Every time I try to replay this, I always end up either at or around the July/August part for reasons I already shared. I can't discuss it cause we'd go into spoiler territory and I'd like to keep it as minimal as possible just in case ("it's been x years" has become one of my most irritable stances on spoiler culture), so all I can say is that again, I like the idea, but focusing it on a character with no staying power in personality in a dungeon that has some of the most bogged down checks and objectives in the game doesn't excite me all that much. Hope you'll be able to pick it up soon, as I said I find the last few months to be rather excellent and easily the best part of the game.
@Reddish Every time I try to replay this, I always end up either at or around the July/August part for reasons I already shared. I can't discuss it cause we'd go into spoiler territory and I'd like to keep it as minimal as possible just in case ("it's been x years" has become one of my most irritable stances on spoiler culture), so all I can say is that again, I like the idea, but focusing it on a character with no staying power in personality in a dungeon that has some of the most bogged down checks and objectives in the game doesn't excite me all that much. Hope you'll be able to pick it up soon, as I said I find the last few months to be rather excellent and easily the best part of the game.
I want to play this game and review it but I think that A: I have nothing to add to the conversation around the game, and B: I'm afraid to even wade into it, because there's a lot about the story and the way it handles its characters that I hadn't considered while mindlessly going through it back in the day, and I don't think I'm at all qualified to unpack any of it now.
I'll forever appreciate it for introducing me to SMT, though. If it weren't for Persona 4 I wouldn't have played Nocturne.
I'll forever appreciate it for introducing me to SMT, though. If it weren't for Persona 4 I wouldn't have played Nocturne.
@Weatherby The Nu-Persona trilogy has definitely reached the same set of games where it feels like you can't really add much to discussion outside of personal attachment cause well, what else can you add about its depth? Most people have already shared them, some have gone deeper, and even more have examined its problems. I dunno it's not really like the three games prior where there's new things you can say about them and their theming...
I really do oughta finish a "real" SMT game at some point, since I've started several but yet to finish them. It'll either be Nocturne or the DDS duology if I get back into playing the franchise
I really do oughta finish a "real" SMT game at some point, since I've started several but yet to finish them. It'll either be Nocturne or the DDS duology if I get back into playing the franchise
For what it's worth, Nocturne is my favorite game of all time, so that's very easily the one I'd recommend.
DDS1 is good but I did not care for DDS2. It frequently strips you of party members for chunks of the story, which results in a lot of grinding to get other party members simpatico with your protagonist's level. Very interesting game conceptually, love the story, but god could it be better balanced. From what I recall, DDS1 does not suffer from that problem, really.
I also love SMT1 and 2 and I think If is flawed but fascinating, but I don't think any of those are easy to get into and take a lot of patience before they finally click.
DDS1 is good but I did not care for DDS2. It frequently strips you of party members for chunks of the story, which results in a lot of grinding to get other party members simpatico with your protagonist's level. Very interesting game conceptually, love the story, but god could it be better balanced. From what I recall, DDS1 does not suffer from that problem, really.
I also love SMT1 and 2 and I think If is flawed but fascinating, but I don't think any of those are easy to get into and take a lot of patience before they finally click.
Vanilla P4 is better. Less anime tropes, less pointless slice of life nonsense. Still has the same problems that all the modern persona games have but P4 is definitely my favorite.
I love both DDS and Nocturne immensely. You can't go wrong with either though DDS is more forgiving.
DDS1 also has the best dungeons of any megaten that ive played thus far..theyre awesome
The review provides a comprehensive and honest perspective on the complex experience of playing "Persona 4 Golden." The reviewer acknowledges the game's strengths, including its unique setting, enjoyable dungeon-crawling mechanics, and memorable soundtrack. Furthermore, the characters, while having their flaws, are appreciated for their depth and development, and the human antagonist is lauded as one of the best in the Persona series.
However, the review also delves into the game's shortcomings, particularly in the Golden version. The additions made in Golden, such as new events, locations, and jokes, are criticized for disrupting the game's original atmosphere and pacing. The review highlights the disconnection between the game's Social Links and the main story, citing instances where character development feels forced or unnatural. Additionally, the adoption of Persona 3's calendar system is criticized for exacerbating pacing issues, leading to periods of slow progress and dead air.
Despite these criticisms, the reviewer maintains a 7/10 score, acknowledging that when the game shines, it truly excels. The conflicted feelings stem from the game's messy execution, which, while frustrating, does not negate the impactful and enjoyable aspects of the game. The review appreciates the game's personal significance to players and recognizes the potential for meaningful connections with the narrative and characters.
Overall, the review provides a balanced and nuanced perspective, offering both praise and critique for "Persona 4 Golden." This approach allows readers to understand the reviewer's complex feelings about the game, emphasizing that even with its flaws, the game holds moments of genuine brilliance that resonate deeply with players.
However, the review also delves into the game's shortcomings, particularly in the Golden version. The additions made in Golden, such as new events, locations, and jokes, are criticized for disrupting the game's original atmosphere and pacing. The review highlights the disconnection between the game's Social Links and the main story, citing instances where character development feels forced or unnatural. Additionally, the adoption of Persona 3's calendar system is criticized for exacerbating pacing issues, leading to periods of slow progress and dead air.
Despite these criticisms, the reviewer maintains a 7/10 score, acknowledging that when the game shines, it truly excels. The conflicted feelings stem from the game's messy execution, which, while frustrating, does not negate the impactful and enjoyable aspects of the game. The review appreciates the game's personal significance to players and recognizes the potential for meaningful connections with the narrative and characters.
Overall, the review provides a balanced and nuanced perspective, offering both praise and critique for "Persona 4 Golden." This approach allows readers to understand the reviewer's complex feelings about the game, emphasizing that even with its flaws, the game holds moments of genuine brilliance that resonate deeply with players.
FallenGrace
11 months ago
Yosuke is and will always be trash though.