I think your mileage with this will heavily depend on how much you can forgive it for being so derivative, but I think in this case it’s worth forgiving. Personally, I have no problem with stealing souls systems like bonfires, estus, stamina management, parries, rallies etc. but there are points where I think Lies of P crosses a line: talking to sick people through windows, a not-fire-keeper calling you “clever one”, slowly pushing open heavy double-doors, the same damn item pickup and menu sounds, I think these kinds of choices are needlessly derivative and will only serve to remind people of other, better, games. A more thrifty approach could have taken the meat of souls without also taking the chaff. Even things like attacking, running and dodging animations are uncannily similar to fromsoft titles, which is a bit of a double-edged sword: On the one hand, this is one of the precious few souls copycats that actually feels great to play, because it takes the finely-tuned animation cadence of fromsoft so wholesale (the other souls copycat that feels good, Nioh, relies on the years of action game experience that Team Ninja has, so it’s maybe preferable for an inexperienced dev to simply steal in this case). The negative side of this is that everything which feels “off” or out of place will stick out all the more severely. Level design is pretty obviously inferior to fromsoft’s games, as linear as it is with a bunch of superfluous shortcuts, lacking the overlapping and layered tracks that define the best souls levels (ds3 undead settlement is a perfect example) and lacking any real side areas. But elsewhere I have to say that as the game went on, I found remarkably little to complain about: Environmental design and the art direction is alarmingly good for a debut game, enemy variety is surprisingly great - one of the critical things that separates good souls from mid souls, I was really taken aback by how the game has unique minibosses that are only used once or twice whereas basically every other souls copycat is defined by excessive reuse. The quality of the animations is universally top-notch, everything flows great and so many weapons have enjoyable movesets and bosses have subtle variations in their combos to signify what they’ll do next.

All creativity is about stealing to some extent, though this is admittedly on the more extreme end of that spectrum. Still, I think a fixation on its similarities - both superficial and meaningful - can cover up the actually original things that are here: Glossing over the neat durability and weapon-fusion mechanics, I love the parry/blocking system in this game and think it's an ingenious fusion of Sekiro and Bloodborne that actually improves both. The boon of Sekiro’s posture and parry mechanics was that it allowed bosses to have flashy, dynamic, extended blockstrings without feeling like you were just waiting for the boss to be done (i.e Elden Ring), because parrying those blockstrings did damage to the enemy. The flaw of Sekiro’s mechanics, for some people at least, was that parry was the only meaningful way to engage with a lot of situations, which Lies of P solves by requiring posture breaks to be activated by a charged heavy, forcing you into finding an opening and not just reacting with parries. Bloodborne, on the other hand, was all about hit-trading, thanks to its rally mechanic, and the boon of this was that getting hit was equally an opportunity just as much as it was a punishment, the flaw, however, was that in some cases it could promote mindlessly aggressive play, where you just hit-trade a boss to death without even trying to avoid their attacks (Bloodborne mostly got around this with clever enemy designs, but some bosses still have the problem). Lies of P fuses these two by locking the rally mechanic behind blocking, while retaining the parrying mechanics of Sekiro. The result is an interesting risk-reward pipeline: Risk a parry to get their posture down, if you miss and get a regular block, now you’re encouraged to go on the offensive to get that health back, getting hit is unequivocally bad and dodging remains very relevant as a repositioning tool. It’s interesting and, for me, very satisfying to engage with, though I wouldn’t say it’s perfect: It’s a little too insistent on parrying with the armour and tracking that bosses/elite enemies sometimes have, the fact that it doesn’t show you the posture bar so that you can’t factor in how close an enemy is to staggering into your decision-making also seems like an odd choice, and the “perilous attacks” beating both block and dodge can get a little ridiculous, but for the most part I really like the systems here.

The deciding factor for me is that the bosses in Lies of P are genuinely fantastic, all with loads of varied, amazingly animated attacks and interesting gimmicks, there are some lacklustre ones, especially the two lategame rematch bosses, but the run of bosses from Andreas with his side-switching gimmick, the Black Rabbits aka "O&S but with 3 different Ornsteins", King of Puppets, Victor and the Green Monster with the clever reuse of the Watchman is just banger after banger, they're all so creatively designed, and if I could commit some blasphemy real quick, I think this boss lineup is better than any other soulslike game, fromsoft included.

It comes with the caveat that this is a very difficult game. I love that, personally, the level of difficulty means that encounters demand you respect them and learn their moves rather than stumbling through, but it won’t be for everyone, and I think if you go in with the mindset that it’s just a copy, you’re not going to want to give it that respect. It’s a little sad that the general reception seems to be so lukewarm, and it’s hard to pinpoint whether this lies in the difficulty, the feeling that it’s a “knockoff”, a vindictive idea that any good soulslike is a threat to fromsoft, or just general fatigue with soulslikes. Regardless, a lot of the takes about how the game is unfair or feels “off” just don’t ring true to me at all; I think this is the real deal, it’s a damn good game, and I honestly find myself feeling that it’s going to be my GOTY, but hey, I loved Bloodborne and Sekiro, so it was probably a given that I would love a fusion of the two as well.

Reviewed on Sep 23, 2023


10 Comments


7 months ago

Damn near perfect review. Art is derivitive, and while this leans a little too aggresively in copying some things, it stil has a lot to show. I even agree that this game has better bosses than most of the souls games (though preferable i like ds3's bosses more).

7 months ago

My only complain so far after 18 hours or so is that the enemy variety isn't that special. Mostly humanoids, or puppets with humanoid forms, or monsters and most of them try to slap you.

Outside of that this game is an amazing alternative to FS's games. Hell, I will miss some mechanics unique to this game when I get back to Dark Souls.

7 months ago

@APairofTimbs Thanks! I wanted to do an extended thing about the value of iteration and how a lot of our current ideas about creativity are influenced by German romanticism with their focus on spontaneous individual creation, compared to older iterative practices like epic literature, but I think I'll have to save that discussion for another time since I wanted this to be more concise.

7 months ago

@Moister I think the enemy variety is fine, though I definitely understand where you're coming from wrt enemies that try to just slap you and the game does reuse the standard puppet humanoid far more than any other enemy. I'm not sure how much of that is excused by the theming but even then, there probably could have been some weirder types of puppets. I think I was impressed because my expectations were a lot lower, even Nioh 2, which I like a lot, reuses enemies way more than this.

7 months ago

You elaborated on the issue of its reception very well, a lot better than I could have. Thanks!

7 months ago

@Lordg Yes, just wished the attack pattern was somewhat more varied for the normal enemies. It does vary from time to time but it isn't as much as I hoped.

Even some bosses suffer from this.

6 months ago

just finding out that joseph anderson read this review on stream lol

anyway good review, i havent played the game and admittedly dont find myself super interested in doing so but that's probably because fromsoft's games dont really appeal to me for their combat mechanics so much as their level design and, crucially, their strong aesthetic vision - by which i dont just mean the (superlative) art direction or the narrative elements but rather the experience that is generated from the combination of those things with other formal elements - the perpetual autosaving and incidental nature of decision-making, the directness with which you interact with its world, the interwoven multiplayer mechanics, the punishing enemy design, the sadistic traps and ambushes, the sprawling and interconnected areas, the lack of clear guidance and, of course, the weighty combat with slow, committal attacks. the 'formula' they created was wholly original, and that unique, purposeful, unifying aesthetic vision is what's lost when derivatives copy their homework. granted, i have enjoyed team ninja's stabs at the "soulslike" in the past, but that's because they tend to pretty straightforwardly prioritize the action and draw from their own expertise in that field.

6 months ago

@baldur Agreed! It's why I included that little jab about "other, better, games": Purely seen from the perspective of combat + bosses I think Lies of P outdoes a lot of fromsoft games, which is impressive in its own right and it's why Joe ended up loving it so much since he is drawn to souls games for those things, but I still think the From games are better. More holistically good, more interesting from more angles and a lot richer creatively, for all of the reasons you mention. I'm currently dabbling in King's Field IV which is making it clear to me how From's commitment to and execution of this stuff isn't confined to just the souls games. Ultimately, the copying bothers me because I don't think the game can really reach that same holistic greatness when it haphazardly takes some things while leaving others, even if it can be really enjoyable and satisfying by solely honing in on and refining combat mechanics. I'm glad other people have found the story in this game to be great but I massively prefer the souls games scattered exploration of entropy and historiographical decay over this more "traditional" style of narrative.

Also yeah very funny that Joe read this on stream (https://www.twitch.tv/andersonjph/clip/WimpyInquisitiveAlpacaSSSsss-L2rs2ODY81B87FKc), unfortunately I wasn't watching live. Very surreal moment for me since I've been watching his streams since like 2017. Maybe I should include more controversial bait in the future so he finishes reading it next time?

6 months ago

I think that's actually a great point on copying as such vs. building on an overall context. A huge amount of my frustration with recent Fromsoft is that it feels like they themselves have abandoned this goal and are "copying from themselves" haphazardly, especially with DS3 and ER. I think part of the reason I enjoyed this game is that it's more modest and focuses on iterating with fundamentals, even if it doesn't have the lofty ambitions of a DS1 (and I also wasn't hugely taken with the story in Lies of P). But I'm particularly bitter about this so take with a grain of salt.

6 months ago

@HotPocketHPE yeah i was gonna mention how i think the loss of vision also applies to a lesser extent to each new fromsoft game that builds on the established formula without taking many risks (or even blunting its edges) but then it felt like i was just rewording the thesis of matthewmatosis's "the lost soul arts of demon's souls". i do think ER evolves the formula at least a little bit with the open world, and i appreciate that exploration was once again made an emphasis, but in other ways it feels like their most "compromised" game yet