I’ve been trying to figure out why video games consistently fail at adapting mental illness, at least the ones that I’ve played. We all agree (or at least, most sane people agree) that games are a form of high art capable of tackling mature themes, and indeed the plethora of judicious titles out there more than prove that point. But when it comes to psychological ailments, they stumble and trip: at best you’re hit with overly-sentimental fluff, at worst you get something downright idiotic. It can’t be because the creators themselves don’t know what they’re talking about, as many of them have been open about their own struggles, so what is it?
I think it has to do with a number of dilemmas, the most obvious being the lack of a one-size-fits-all banner; even something as seemingly generic as depression can vary DRASTICALLY from person-to-person in terms of causes, manifestations, triggers, diagnoses, etc….The second is the gameplay question, or how you have the player engage with this metaphysical problem in a manner that isn’t pretentious or offensive. As just stated, it’s hard enough to characterize clinical disorders in a way that makes them tangentially relatable to multiple individuals, but even if you find that magic formula, the task of further turning that into a fun interactable medium is a whole other can of worms. If gamers aren’t entertained, it won’t matter how deep your storytelling is; and if your narrative is surface-level worthy, it won’t matter how intricate the gameplay is.
Third, and arguably most important, is the portrayal: how exactly do you show someone struggling with what is effectively cognitive cancer? Well, the answer tends to be anthropomorphizing the negative thoughts into an actual persona as that allows creators to visualize the constant negative voice many dysthymic individuals have in their heads, and that approach is what was taken by Matt Makes Games (since renamed Maddy Makes Games) for their secondary outing Celeste. A member of the difficult platformer genre, Celeste focuses on a young woman attempting to climb the titular mountain for reasons she herself is not sure of. The only issue is she’s being hampered by several obstacles generated by the Alp, the worst a malevolent doppelganger who seems eternally pessimistic. As you can probably guess, both these facets are metaphorical in scope: the mountain is the protagonist’s (Madeline’s+) mental hurdles, the dark mirror (Badeline) a compilation of her complexes, and a quick look over this schema reveals the first qualm with it: it’s ridiculously tame. While tis true that depression kills motivation, that is hardly its worst aspect- ruined relationships, serious health problems, and utter misery are just some of the anguishes you can get from chronic melancholy, yet in Celeste, Madeline’s odyssey is akin to one of those sports movies wherein the hero only has to look within themself to triumph against a stronger adversary. It’s very cookie-cutter and does an injustice to its real-life counterpart: the conversations between the twins simmer down to a toxic sibling relationship in place of the jackhammer that is feelings of inferiority. I’m honestly not surprised to learn the game got an E10 rating considering none of the dialogue approaches the kind of in-depth storytelling a topic such as mental illness necessitated. Worse still are the moments of levity wherein Madeline will either engage in playful banter with her clone (you know, the entity meant to represent her debilitating anxiety), or converse with a fellow backpacker named Theo (who’s whole characterization is taking selfies because MILLENNIALS!).
Now I know there will be counterarguments saying I was reading too much into the premise and that it was never meant to be that introspective, and maybe this is true (I only skimmed over the Wikipedia page after all), but even on the lower tiers of self-improvement I don’t think the game succeeded. It rehashes the same cliche advice you’ve been given a thousand times over since childhood: embrace your fears; don’t be scared to show emotion; if at first you don’t succeed, try try again. Don’t get me wrong, such wisdom is well-intentioned, it’s just utterly banal at this point in time. Kids, teens, and adults all know the right steps forward; if things were that easy to follow, everyone would be constantly optimistic. It unfortunately doesn’t fly in this day-and-age where advances in neurochemistry disclose complications in the central processing organ that originates these thoughts, and to act like clinical disorders can be powered through via sheer willpower is quite silly.
I also had an issue with the bluffs themselves. If they’re meant to be an allegory, how exactly are the other inhabitants there? Madeline arrives the same way we all do in a dream, seemingly manifesting without a beginning, yet Theo and co. claim to have either come from elsewhere or been long-term residents. They’re evidently not figments of the heroine’s imagination, so what is this reality we’re in? How does Madeline seem to conveniently stumble upon them when she’s consistently ascending? I know it appears dumb to harp on what is effectively a framing device, but when you’re imbibing a fantasy atmosphere you have to make your rules clear, otherwise the world gets less investable. And you guys need to understand these conversations Madeline has with those characters, while occasionally optional, are where the bulk of the themes lie, meaning they needed all the help they could get from the surrounding ambience, especially when you consider the game lacks voice acting. Yes, that’s right, Celeste is another pure-text scrawl, and while I did have problems with the script, there’s no denying a talented performer could’ve imbued the lines with vigorous pathos. Alas, that wasn’t to be, and worse yet, what you get in-place are an atrocious series of dins meant to mimic varying emotes. Do you guys remember how, in the Charlie Brown cartoons, Vince Guaraldi would render adult vocals with a muted trombone? Yeah, imagine that cranked up to cacophonous levels and you get the babbling in Celeste. It’s absolutely annoying.
Thankfully, the rest of the SFX is more up-to-par. As a platformer, you’re going to do your typical activities of jumping, rebounding, token collecting, door unlocking, etc…and all have that crisp arcade-y din that never gets old to hear. You even have some nice subtle additions, like echoes in caves, muffled tones while submerged, and differentiated thudding based on surface material.
The score is mostly fantastic as well, with composer Lena Raine adjusting her music to fit not only the level layout, but the required scenic tone (being chased, resolving a dilemma, exploring, and so forth). You’re going to be spending a lot of time redoing areas, and it significantly helps one’s patience to not have aggravating tunes looping ad nauseam. That said, I did use the term “mostly” because there were a couple of compositions (particularly early on) that leaned too heavily into that outdated, screechy noise you always heard in 8-bit video games, which doesn’t work despite Celeste visually resembling one of those titles.
Yeah, all cards on the table, I wasn’t a big fan of the graphics. There were a lot of nice touches that certainly raise Celeste above vanilla releases from the third generation, such as the frenzied motion of background objects, presence of floating motes, scuff clouds from Madeline’s feet, sweat beads, colored torch lighting, and the mobility of hair. But the baseline aesthetic just looks a bit antiquated in a non-homage kind of way, with extra facets coming across as two steps backwards, like the complete absence of faces, prevalence of pudgy hands, and the fact that the backdrops of every stage look like a library of retinted assets from RPG Maker. Seriously, I was genuinely surprised to learn this game was built in XNA given how rehashed the aesthetics are, and I’m not referring to things like terrain blocks (that were of course going to be replicated) but the numerous furnishings. You’re going to see the same exact bookcases, crystals, vines, statues, flags, and so forth from place-to-place, and no matter the flair the developers slap on the whole enterprise, it can’t help but remove some of the uniqueness from the world. Combine this with the fact that you’re going to be in these vistas for elongated periods of time courtesy of the resurrections, and you can see how such aesthetics get tiring.
On the topic of resurrections, let’s talk about the gameplay, which is of course the main appeal of any platformer. Like I said before, Celeste is a difficult platformer, and while it isn’t in the same ballpark as say They Bleed Pixels, it is still a title that lives and dies by, well, living and dying. Levels are built around strategically leaping and boosting about pillars courtesy of a speed burst, with later parts adding new gimmicks like momentum bubbles, wind gliding, and discount Thwomps, and the only method of overcoming everything is through the tried and true trial-and-error tactic of perishing and rejuvenating. This is a game that really wanted to embody overcoming stress in all aspects of its being, and the craftsmanship is superb. Save points click upon entering a new frame, and combined with the quick reload times, you can expect your death toll to easily rise into the 100s without notice (which the game gleefully tells you at the end).
The biggest issues I had with Celeste were two-fold: first, its platforming is only cued to the eight cardinal directions of N, S, E, W + diagonals. That’s fine and dandy, but the problem is, if you’re playing with a controller (like I was) the game often doesn’t register which angle you’re aiming at unless you push the joystick extensively that way, which you can’t really be thinking about as you go through the motions. The 360 degree nature of a joystick means there is a lot of room for error, and I feel the developers should’ve accounted for that when implementing gamepad support.
The second is the open-ended nature of certain sections, where you aren’t given a clear pathway forward. This obviously works for players who wish to indulge in the game’s side content of strawberry collecting (more on that below), but those wanting to simply push onwards to the finish line may get stuck wasting time on tasks they did not actually need to do.
There is plenty of content at your fingertips: strawberries, as said above, are often located in specific crevices that require even more precise maneuvering to acquire; an actual 8-bit version of the game (created for PICO-8) is playable to complete (though keep in mind it doesn’t save your progress as I learned the hard way). Alongside that, every stage has a findable “B-side” that allows you to play through an alternate, harder version of it, and if that wasn’t enough, select chapters have special objects that, when acquired, unlock an eighth area set after the events of the main game (much like the Krem Koins in DKC2). I personally didn’t indulge much in either, however, fans will no doubt cherish the bonuses.
In the end, Celeste faltered because it wastes a lot of time on a narrative that, in my opinion, failed to live up to its potential. Combine that with overly-simple visuals and standard platforming fare and you get an okay game that’ll no doubt appeal to a certain sect of the gaming populace.
Notes
+Madeline can be renamed, however, as she is definitively not an avatar, the option is ultimately pointless on the part of the devs.
++Much has been made about Madeline being transgender, and while I’ve always been an advocate for more representation, I felt this didn't add anything to the game as her gender identity is barely hinted at. It’s a lot like when Simon Pegg and co. retroactively made Sulu gay in Star Trek Beyond, though even there they at least threw in one scene indicating as such. That said, numerous commentators have indicated that the free DLC (the unlockable secret world) is more explicit with Madeline's transidentity, and as a cisgender man, I know I have unintentional biases and will never be intrinsically knowledgeable of a transperson's experiences. So take it all with a grain of salt.
+++Wasn’t able to fit this into the main review, but gotta be honest- I did not like any of the side characters. Theo is barely tolerable, Mr. Oshiro pathetic, and the old lady strangleable.
I think it has to do with a number of dilemmas, the most obvious being the lack of a one-size-fits-all banner; even something as seemingly generic as depression can vary DRASTICALLY from person-to-person in terms of causes, manifestations, triggers, diagnoses, etc….The second is the gameplay question, or how you have the player engage with this metaphysical problem in a manner that isn’t pretentious or offensive. As just stated, it’s hard enough to characterize clinical disorders in a way that makes them tangentially relatable to multiple individuals, but even if you find that magic formula, the task of further turning that into a fun interactable medium is a whole other can of worms. If gamers aren’t entertained, it won’t matter how deep your storytelling is; and if your narrative is surface-level worthy, it won’t matter how intricate the gameplay is.
Third, and arguably most important, is the portrayal: how exactly do you show someone struggling with what is effectively cognitive cancer? Well, the answer tends to be anthropomorphizing the negative thoughts into an actual persona as that allows creators to visualize the constant negative voice many dysthymic individuals have in their heads, and that approach is what was taken by Matt Makes Games (since renamed Maddy Makes Games) for their secondary outing Celeste. A member of the difficult platformer genre, Celeste focuses on a young woman attempting to climb the titular mountain for reasons she herself is not sure of. The only issue is she’s being hampered by several obstacles generated by the Alp, the worst a malevolent doppelganger who seems eternally pessimistic. As you can probably guess, both these facets are metaphorical in scope: the mountain is the protagonist’s (Madeline’s+) mental hurdles, the dark mirror (Badeline) a compilation of her complexes, and a quick look over this schema reveals the first qualm with it: it’s ridiculously tame. While tis true that depression kills motivation, that is hardly its worst aspect- ruined relationships, serious health problems, and utter misery are just some of the anguishes you can get from chronic melancholy, yet in Celeste, Madeline’s odyssey is akin to one of those sports movies wherein the hero only has to look within themself to triumph against a stronger adversary. It’s very cookie-cutter and does an injustice to its real-life counterpart: the conversations between the twins simmer down to a toxic sibling relationship in place of the jackhammer that is feelings of inferiority. I’m honestly not surprised to learn the game got an E10 rating considering none of the dialogue approaches the kind of in-depth storytelling a topic such as mental illness necessitated. Worse still are the moments of levity wherein Madeline will either engage in playful banter with her clone (you know, the entity meant to represent her debilitating anxiety), or converse with a fellow backpacker named Theo (who’s whole characterization is taking selfies because MILLENNIALS!).
Now I know there will be counterarguments saying I was reading too much into the premise and that it was never meant to be that introspective, and maybe this is true (I only skimmed over the Wikipedia page after all), but even on the lower tiers of self-improvement I don’t think the game succeeded. It rehashes the same cliche advice you’ve been given a thousand times over since childhood: embrace your fears; don’t be scared to show emotion; if at first you don’t succeed, try try again. Don’t get me wrong, such wisdom is well-intentioned, it’s just utterly banal at this point in time. Kids, teens, and adults all know the right steps forward; if things were that easy to follow, everyone would be constantly optimistic. It unfortunately doesn’t fly in this day-and-age where advances in neurochemistry disclose complications in the central processing organ that originates these thoughts, and to act like clinical disorders can be powered through via sheer willpower is quite silly.
I also had an issue with the bluffs themselves. If they’re meant to be an allegory, how exactly are the other inhabitants there? Madeline arrives the same way we all do in a dream, seemingly manifesting without a beginning, yet Theo and co. claim to have either come from elsewhere or been long-term residents. They’re evidently not figments of the heroine’s imagination, so what is this reality we’re in? How does Madeline seem to conveniently stumble upon them when she’s consistently ascending? I know it appears dumb to harp on what is effectively a framing device, but when you’re imbibing a fantasy atmosphere you have to make your rules clear, otherwise the world gets less investable. And you guys need to understand these conversations Madeline has with those characters, while occasionally optional, are where the bulk of the themes lie, meaning they needed all the help they could get from the surrounding ambience, especially when you consider the game lacks voice acting. Yes, that’s right, Celeste is another pure-text scrawl, and while I did have problems with the script, there’s no denying a talented performer could’ve imbued the lines with vigorous pathos. Alas, that wasn’t to be, and worse yet, what you get in-place are an atrocious series of dins meant to mimic varying emotes. Do you guys remember how, in the Charlie Brown cartoons, Vince Guaraldi would render adult vocals with a muted trombone? Yeah, imagine that cranked up to cacophonous levels and you get the babbling in Celeste. It’s absolutely annoying.
Thankfully, the rest of the SFX is more up-to-par. As a platformer, you’re going to do your typical activities of jumping, rebounding, token collecting, door unlocking, etc…and all have that crisp arcade-y din that never gets old to hear. You even have some nice subtle additions, like echoes in caves, muffled tones while submerged, and differentiated thudding based on surface material.
The score is mostly fantastic as well, with composer Lena Raine adjusting her music to fit not only the level layout, but the required scenic tone (being chased, resolving a dilemma, exploring, and so forth). You’re going to be spending a lot of time redoing areas, and it significantly helps one’s patience to not have aggravating tunes looping ad nauseam. That said, I did use the term “mostly” because there were a couple of compositions (particularly early on) that leaned too heavily into that outdated, screechy noise you always heard in 8-bit video games, which doesn’t work despite Celeste visually resembling one of those titles.
Yeah, all cards on the table, I wasn’t a big fan of the graphics. There were a lot of nice touches that certainly raise Celeste above vanilla releases from the third generation, such as the frenzied motion of background objects, presence of floating motes, scuff clouds from Madeline’s feet, sweat beads, colored torch lighting, and the mobility of hair. But the baseline aesthetic just looks a bit antiquated in a non-homage kind of way, with extra facets coming across as two steps backwards, like the complete absence of faces, prevalence of pudgy hands, and the fact that the backdrops of every stage look like a library of retinted assets from RPG Maker. Seriously, I was genuinely surprised to learn this game was built in XNA given how rehashed the aesthetics are, and I’m not referring to things like terrain blocks (that were of course going to be replicated) but the numerous furnishings. You’re going to see the same exact bookcases, crystals, vines, statues, flags, and so forth from place-to-place, and no matter the flair the developers slap on the whole enterprise, it can’t help but remove some of the uniqueness from the world. Combine this with the fact that you’re going to be in these vistas for elongated periods of time courtesy of the resurrections, and you can see how such aesthetics get tiring.
On the topic of resurrections, let’s talk about the gameplay, which is of course the main appeal of any platformer. Like I said before, Celeste is a difficult platformer, and while it isn’t in the same ballpark as say They Bleed Pixels, it is still a title that lives and dies by, well, living and dying. Levels are built around strategically leaping and boosting about pillars courtesy of a speed burst, with later parts adding new gimmicks like momentum bubbles, wind gliding, and discount Thwomps, and the only method of overcoming everything is through the tried and true trial-and-error tactic of perishing and rejuvenating. This is a game that really wanted to embody overcoming stress in all aspects of its being, and the craftsmanship is superb. Save points click upon entering a new frame, and combined with the quick reload times, you can expect your death toll to easily rise into the 100s without notice (which the game gleefully tells you at the end).
The biggest issues I had with Celeste were two-fold: first, its platforming is only cued to the eight cardinal directions of N, S, E, W + diagonals. That’s fine and dandy, but the problem is, if you’re playing with a controller (like I was) the game often doesn’t register which angle you’re aiming at unless you push the joystick extensively that way, which you can’t really be thinking about as you go through the motions. The 360 degree nature of a joystick means there is a lot of room for error, and I feel the developers should’ve accounted for that when implementing gamepad support.
The second is the open-ended nature of certain sections, where you aren’t given a clear pathway forward. This obviously works for players who wish to indulge in the game’s side content of strawberry collecting (more on that below), but those wanting to simply push onwards to the finish line may get stuck wasting time on tasks they did not actually need to do.
There is plenty of content at your fingertips: strawberries, as said above, are often located in specific crevices that require even more precise maneuvering to acquire; an actual 8-bit version of the game (created for PICO-8) is playable to complete (though keep in mind it doesn’t save your progress as I learned the hard way). Alongside that, every stage has a findable “B-side” that allows you to play through an alternate, harder version of it, and if that wasn’t enough, select chapters have special objects that, when acquired, unlock an eighth area set after the events of the main game (much like the Krem Koins in DKC2). I personally didn’t indulge much in either, however, fans will no doubt cherish the bonuses.
In the end, Celeste faltered because it wastes a lot of time on a narrative that, in my opinion, failed to live up to its potential. Combine that with overly-simple visuals and standard platforming fare and you get an okay game that’ll no doubt appeal to a certain sect of the gaming populace.
Notes
+Madeline can be renamed, however, as she is definitively not an avatar, the option is ultimately pointless on the part of the devs.
++Much has been made about Madeline being transgender, and while I’ve always been an advocate for more representation, I felt this didn't add anything to the game as her gender identity is barely hinted at. It’s a lot like when Simon Pegg and co. retroactively made Sulu gay in Star Trek Beyond, though even there they at least threw in one scene indicating as such. That said, numerous commentators have indicated that the free DLC (the unlockable secret world) is more explicit with Madeline's transidentity, and as a cisgender man, I know I have unintentional biases and will never be intrinsically knowledgeable of a transperson's experiences. So take it all with a grain of salt.
+++Wasn’t able to fit this into the main review, but gotta be honest- I did not like any of the side characters. Theo is barely tolerable, Mr. Oshiro pathetic, and the old lady strangleable.
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I would be lying if I didn't say your post didn't have me reconsidering the central story (especially Theo's simplistic personality and the simplistic morals of 'running up that hill' as overstated), so I appreciate that. I do think saying you want to strangle an old lady is pretty wild but not as incidentally funny as referring to a trip up a mountain as 'titular'. Be careful with all that XD
I appreciate you changing parts and clarifying in response to criticism. The only problem I had with this post was using the old name of the studio because it features the creators deadname. When it comes to trans people 'formerly known'-ing us is functionally deadnaming. You're free to correct it or not in response to this criticism but I think it's just important to know, in general.
I think tokenization is fine if its accompanied with strong subtextual cues. It's slightly more awkward in this case because the main character seems very similar to the head designer Maddy herself, even in the proximity of name so any referents to the representation as 'tokenizing' has an offshoring implication of the author themselves as faking. More just an unfortunate situation for reading the game than anything to feel fault over. The point of illustrating this is to say that it explains the rather sentimental reaction queer people are going to have to that, as I don't think it was retrofitted in quite the same way these other instances were. In particular I think you're viewing the central dynamic as one of depression rather than as gender dysphoria, which makes more sense because for a passing transwoman since this is actually a problematic that can be overcome through trying to think it through and being seen by other people enough. For the fact this gender presence is invisible, I would maybe refer it most accurately to imposter syndrome for cis people which in fairness I would say much of gender dysphoria could be referenced to. For instance the feeling you're not doing enough, that you havent accomplished the goals you feel you're supposed to, that you're underskilled, etc. I agree with you that you relate to the protagonist here because I see you in this very comment section sandbagging yourself as a wannabe blogger! Bloggers are no better or worse than what you've constructed here really. If you're seeking a more internal relationship to these struggles check out No One Can Ever Know. I think your problem is mostly with symbolic metaphor and allegory on the whole for what its worth. I would agree that art is most effective at its most transparent but you're not going to find that in almost anything commercially successful, on a larger stage. I don't really have as a whole the same feeling of insult that my peers here do so don't take it that way or anything. I think that the depression reading is just going to lead to thinking about it like this when I feel like a like 'chemical' understanding of self esteem issues makes sense.
The only other disagreement is on the quote that ' If gamers aren’t entertained, it won’t matter how deep your storytelling is; and if your narrative is surface-level worthy, it won’t matter how intricate the gameplay is.'. It depends on what you digress as 'entertaining' but often going through the process of learning something is in fact not entertaining in a linear sense. In reference to this you have genres like the grand strategy game or the roguelike, which ask the player to invest and incredible amount of time. Frusteration and confusion are not generally tied to 'fun' but are important to enjoyment regardless. There's also lots of games out there like He Fucked the Girl Out of Me which are not remotely entertaining but have a lot to offer in other ways, tragedy, information, melancholy. This sentiment of 'catering' is part of the problem in my view.
Hopefully this doesn't reach you poorly, I took very careful consideration of my words here. Good luck to you in your future adventures.
I appreciate you changing parts and clarifying in response to criticism. The only problem I had with this post was using the old name of the studio because it features the creators deadname. When it comes to trans people 'formerly known'-ing us is functionally deadnaming. You're free to correct it or not in response to this criticism but I think it's just important to know, in general.
I think tokenization is fine if its accompanied with strong subtextual cues. It's slightly more awkward in this case because the main character seems very similar to the head designer Maddy herself, even in the proximity of name so any referents to the representation as 'tokenizing' has an offshoring implication of the author themselves as faking. More just an unfortunate situation for reading the game than anything to feel fault over. The point of illustrating this is to say that it explains the rather sentimental reaction queer people are going to have to that, as I don't think it was retrofitted in quite the same way these other instances were. In particular I think you're viewing the central dynamic as one of depression rather than as gender dysphoria, which makes more sense because for a passing transwoman since this is actually a problematic that can be overcome through trying to think it through and being seen by other people enough. For the fact this gender presence is invisible, I would maybe refer it most accurately to imposter syndrome for cis people which in fairness I would say much of gender dysphoria could be referenced to. For instance the feeling you're not doing enough, that you havent accomplished the goals you feel you're supposed to, that you're underskilled, etc. I agree with you that you relate to the protagonist here because I see you in this very comment section sandbagging yourself as a wannabe blogger! Bloggers are no better or worse than what you've constructed here really. If you're seeking a more internal relationship to these struggles check out No One Can Ever Know. I think your problem is mostly with symbolic metaphor and allegory on the whole for what its worth. I would agree that art is most effective at its most transparent but you're not going to find that in almost anything commercially successful, on a larger stage. I don't really have as a whole the same feeling of insult that my peers here do so don't take it that way or anything. I think that the depression reading is just going to lead to thinking about it like this when I feel like a like 'chemical' understanding of self esteem issues makes sense.
The only other disagreement is on the quote that ' If gamers aren’t entertained, it won’t matter how deep your storytelling is; and if your narrative is surface-level worthy, it won’t matter how intricate the gameplay is.'. It depends on what you digress as 'entertaining' but often going through the process of learning something is in fact not entertaining in a linear sense. In reference to this you have genres like the grand strategy game or the roguelike, which ask the player to invest and incredible amount of time. Frusteration and confusion are not generally tied to 'fun' but are important to enjoyment regardless. There's also lots of games out there like He Fucked the Girl Out of Me which are not remotely entertaining but have a lot to offer in other ways, tragedy, information, melancholy. This sentiment of 'catering' is part of the problem in my view.
Hopefully this doesn't reach you poorly, I took very careful consideration of my words here. Good luck to you in your future adventures.
@Erato_Heti Thank you for the support, it means a lot after all the slander these past two days. I don't understand the mountain innuendo? The strangle thing was definitely a joke though haha.
It wasn't my intention as I didn't know the company had changed names (and yeah, I definitely should've known as a reviewer, so that's a dock regardless). The thing is, I always credit a company by the name it used at the time it published the game as that is accurate information- we don't apply retcons to factual information, and I did the same with Don't Nod in Tell Me Why to indicate consistency. Ik it's a more sensitive matter with trans people due to what you said, but I have to be consistent in my standards as a critic and note both.
You're right that it's not tokenization since it was an unintentional personal story. But again, as I have repeated throughout this discussion thread, I don't care about intentions, I care about results. And the result, for me at least, was that Madeline's transidentity was indifferent from a token representation since it added nothing to the story from my perspective.
Yeah, I don't doubt gender dysphoria influenced the narrative, but Thorson herself has explicitly stated that depression/anxiety were core facets of it (of course, that's not mutually exclusive with gender dysphoria or Imposter Syndrome). Either way, the advice/morals of the game are surface level in terms of helping people with Impostor Syndrome (and I assume gender dysphoria). Also, I don't have Impostor Syndrome lol- the blogger comparison is apt because this is basically a blog (a GREAT one, don't get me wrong, but a blog nonetheless) for any hooligan to publish their thoughts.
My problem was the game didn't give anything worthwhile to chew on. It's the same kind of counseling we've gotten all our lives from motivational speakers, and I don't think it adds much to the discourse. I'd look at No One Can Ever Know, but it appears to be a pure text adventure? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if so, I'm generally not a huge fan of those.
Yeah that's a really great point about the best art being more transparent in its messaging. Certainly the best games I've played did just that with their themes.
Look, that was definitely a generalized statement, but I standby that it applies to the majority of players. Obviously you're a different beast, and I would consider myself as well (I'm generally more open-minded), but I don't think the masses will care about a pure story game with minimal gameplay- obviously a number of walking sims have breached the zeitgeist like Firewatch, however the walking sim is still an indie genre for a reason. As for the second part, I was referring specifically to games that try and tackle something, not games focused purely on gameplay- obviously multiplayer FPSs and Mario platformers will always sell like hotcakes.
You don't have to be careful with your words lol. I like debate and I like the discussions that unfolded with a couple of the responders here. It's sad that a clan of trolls decided to cherry pick and demonize me, but at the end of the day it is what it is. I kept up all the non-trolling comments because I'm not afraid of discussions and want people to see how my creative process works. I am happy that the Mods saw reason in my views and intervened, though I am sad they removed the comment comparing me to Matt Walsh as that exemplified the level of strawmanning some of these people were willing to go.
At the end of the day, though, I think the worst part about all this is I typed up a 2000+ word review and what all these people latched onto was one part of one sentence of a footnote. I put a lot of thought into this write-up, making sure I tackled ALL the facets of the game to give credit to every department, and that was blatantly ignored.
It wasn't my intention as I didn't know the company had changed names (and yeah, I definitely should've known as a reviewer, so that's a dock regardless). The thing is, I always credit a company by the name it used at the time it published the game as that is accurate information- we don't apply retcons to factual information, and I did the same with Don't Nod in Tell Me Why to indicate consistency. Ik it's a more sensitive matter with trans people due to what you said, but I have to be consistent in my standards as a critic and note both.
You're right that it's not tokenization since it was an unintentional personal story. But again, as I have repeated throughout this discussion thread, I don't care about intentions, I care about results. And the result, for me at least, was that Madeline's transidentity was indifferent from a token representation since it added nothing to the story from my perspective.
Yeah, I don't doubt gender dysphoria influenced the narrative, but Thorson herself has explicitly stated that depression/anxiety were core facets of it (of course, that's not mutually exclusive with gender dysphoria or Imposter Syndrome). Either way, the advice/morals of the game are surface level in terms of helping people with Impostor Syndrome (and I assume gender dysphoria). Also, I don't have Impostor Syndrome lol- the blogger comparison is apt because this is basically a blog (a GREAT one, don't get me wrong, but a blog nonetheless) for any hooligan to publish their thoughts.
My problem was the game didn't give anything worthwhile to chew on. It's the same kind of counseling we've gotten all our lives from motivational speakers, and I don't think it adds much to the discourse. I'd look at No One Can Ever Know, but it appears to be a pure text adventure? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if so, I'm generally not a huge fan of those.
Yeah that's a really great point about the best art being more transparent in its messaging. Certainly the best games I've played did just that with their themes.
Look, that was definitely a generalized statement, but I standby that it applies to the majority of players. Obviously you're a different beast, and I would consider myself as well (I'm generally more open-minded), but I don't think the masses will care about a pure story game with minimal gameplay- obviously a number of walking sims have breached the zeitgeist like Firewatch, however the walking sim is still an indie genre for a reason. As for the second part, I was referring specifically to games that try and tackle something, not games focused purely on gameplay- obviously multiplayer FPSs and Mario platformers will always sell like hotcakes.
You don't have to be careful with your words lol. I like debate and I like the discussions that unfolded with a couple of the responders here. It's sad that a clan of trolls decided to cherry pick and demonize me, but at the end of the day it is what it is. I kept up all the non-trolling comments because I'm not afraid of discussions and want people to see how my creative process works. I am happy that the Mods saw reason in my views and intervened, though I am sad they removed the comment comparing me to Matt Walsh as that exemplified the level of strawmanning some of these people were willing to go.
At the end of the day, though, I think the worst part about all this is I typed up a 2000+ word review and what all these people latched onto was one part of one sentence of a footnote. I put a lot of thought into this write-up, making sure I tackled ALL the facets of the game to give credit to every department, and that was blatantly ignored.
You "have to be consistent in [your] standards as a critic?" You're writing on Backloggd and Steam, not ROM Chip. Even professional critics take a step back in the face of new information and correct themselves. Maybe they get snippy about it but they still admit they were wrong. You're not demonstrating the slightest bit of professionalism or some adherence to a substantive set of scruples, you're being a stick in the mud and saying anyone who dares to tell you that is creating a straw man argument, ad hominem, appeal to authority! Forsooth, I hath been owned by thine highlighting of fallacies which are logical in nature. Get off your high horse.
Why does a character's identity in any regard need to add something to a narrative? And when it is this subtle nod to those who are 'in the know' how is that tokenism? There isn't a big arrow being pointed at Madeline that tells you she's trans, it is something that, up until Farewell, was effectively just the authour saying "Yes, this is a reflection of myself, I am a trans woman, Madeline is a trans woman too." She is not winking at the camera, she is not stumbling over her own pronouns. Madeline, like so many trans people, simply presents as her gender. You encounter trans people every day who, for lack of a better term, pass as the gender they identify as. Madeline does too. To consider it tokenism is fundamentally no different from the idea of trans panic -- I did not know this character was trans until new information arose, and now that I have this information, I am upset by it. If it was not made explicit within the text of the game, or by Maddy herself, would you have even known? Would you have cared? Would the thought have crossed your mind that Madeline might possibly be trans?
We've latched onto that footnote because you put it there, a fly in the ointment. It had nothing to do with the rest of your review, its omission makes no difference to your argument, nor does its inclusion. It reads as a cisgendered person feeling they need to make their voice heard on a question nobody asked them. You admit yourself that you "will never be intrinsically knowledgeable of a transperson's experiences," so why make the attempt? That is not allyship, that isn't even sympathising with the proverbial Other, that is just you imparting your two cents on something you are not able to speak on honestly. An ally does not let the group they claim to be an ally for speak as a means for them to further denigrate them. An ally uses their voice for good when the voices of that group are stifled, and allows that group to speak when they are able while the ally listens. An ally doesn't even have to agree with what that group says, but they certainly should not try to school the group, should not speak down to them, should not point out the flaws in their argument. This is not school. This is not debate team. We are a group that is upset, so forgive us if we we express that upset without peer review and self-censorship. Maybe we've had enough of that for a lifetime.
Why does a character's identity in any regard need to add something to a narrative? And when it is this subtle nod to those who are 'in the know' how is that tokenism? There isn't a big arrow being pointed at Madeline that tells you she's trans, it is something that, up until Farewell, was effectively just the authour saying "Yes, this is a reflection of myself, I am a trans woman, Madeline is a trans woman too." She is not winking at the camera, she is not stumbling over her own pronouns. Madeline, like so many trans people, simply presents as her gender. You encounter trans people every day who, for lack of a better term, pass as the gender they identify as. Madeline does too. To consider it tokenism is fundamentally no different from the idea of trans panic -- I did not know this character was trans until new information arose, and now that I have this information, I am upset by it. If it was not made explicit within the text of the game, or by Maddy herself, would you have even known? Would you have cared? Would the thought have crossed your mind that Madeline might possibly be trans?
We've latched onto that footnote because you put it there, a fly in the ointment. It had nothing to do with the rest of your review, its omission makes no difference to your argument, nor does its inclusion. It reads as a cisgendered person feeling they need to make their voice heard on a question nobody asked them. You admit yourself that you "will never be intrinsically knowledgeable of a transperson's experiences," so why make the attempt? That is not allyship, that isn't even sympathising with the proverbial Other, that is just you imparting your two cents on something you are not able to speak on honestly. An ally does not let the group they claim to be an ally for speak as a means for them to further denigrate them. An ally uses their voice for good when the voices of that group are stifled, and allows that group to speak when they are able while the ally listens. An ally doesn't even have to agree with what that group says, but they certainly should not try to school the group, should not speak down to them, should not point out the flaws in their argument. This is not school. This is not debate team. We are a group that is upset, so forgive us if we we express that upset without peer review and self-censorship. Maybe we've had enough of that for a lifetime.
Removed by a moderator
@RedBackLoggd , your response was compelling enough that I felt like clearing a few things up. I'm not super interested in debate so much as understanding. You are right that this vague group refferred to as the masses may be more close minded when it comes to more complex art, but I wouldn't 100% rely on this. For instance Tarskovsky's Stalker is a film that is as complex and atmospheric as it is watchable. I think just in general its worth pointing at how a lot of 'successful' cinema isn't commercial. It's a generality that only works within a certain position of time, and I think the conditions here are such that this should change given enough time of the medium. You've articulated well certain hurdles in that process though and I think the most interesting one here is the unfortunate ties that game mechanics often have to metaphor in their bluntness. That said, I think I tend to find orienting personal opinion around what an abstraction of other people think to be generally a digression. I think maybe this depends on readership though.
Your take on Celeste is fair also because, while I think my interpretation is a more charitable reading of the game (and in this case I am taking your lead to ignore the authorial intentions with the anxiety/depression aspect) most of it is a 'motivational speaker' tier approach. I guess my opinion here is that such a motivational and affirmative ethos that says the redundant thing is not actually bad. At the risk of turning a discussion into self promotion, I recommend my post on (One Night, Hot Springs) [https://www.backloggd.com/u/Erato_Heti/review/617896/] where I do defend the sentimental, also a free visual novel about transgender issues and anxieties that you might like if you can handle that limited degree of interactivity. If you choose not to then perhaps another way to look at it might be that 'motivational speaker' art is not necessarily that distinct from a TV show cartoon or a favourite disney movie. When I watch Snow White for instance I'm not focusing so much on the moral complexity or themes as much as the animation or character sensitivity. So for me at least a game being basic in this regard is a non problem, just some food for thought.
I don't think I should comment on anything else, Madeline's characterization or the other responses. Part of the reason why is maybe strategic on my part, I do have a history with a lot of these other people and I don't want to appear too traitorous by saying something I may disagree with later. I do think the point you're making is compelling, but it applies not only just to her being trans but also I would say to her being a gendered protagonist at all. Madeline seems indifferent to her own gender as much as her possible mistreatment due to it. In particular I only stumbled upon this post from Cadensia's activity, who I owe a huge intellectual debt to. More generally though I feel like I need to refresh my relationship with the game. I will say I don't think the criticism is unwarranted entirely and clearly, neither do you because you did capitulate to changing a lot of your post and making the necessary concessions. Even if others are frustrated here I agree you're not a fascist or a transphobe or anything like that. That said, all I'll say on the Maddy thing though is, while that is the official practice, it was also 'official practice' to formally show the birth names of transgender musicians on Rate Your Music until very recently, which led to a lot of incidental transphobia. I haven't looked into this myself but rather than argue on Maddy's behalf I just want to let you know that this approach to factual recording may cause an upset from the queer community again, and more transparently I think it would be fair if say Maddy said she explicitly did not want people doing that, that we didn't do it. On the other hand, personal opinions of her aside, Jame's Stephanie of the Jimquisition show has no compuctions about the use of her dead name in a factual matter like this. Since, to my knowledge, there's no statement in either direction on it, I'm quite alright with letting it go and letting others speak to that more enraged retorts on that front. I only urge you not to think of the past totally in black and whites like this since a deadname can have real psychological impacts in its use here. For me as a trans person, the RYM example I mentioned was not upsetting to me because those names were there in itself, but that they were the first thing I saw when learning about it. If it was academically nessecary to include a historical deadname I would probably run it as a footnote and then mention within that 'I will be referring to them as their desired name'. This is probably how I would write about the Dadaist artist Rrose known for their famous Fountain protest work.
People are getting heated but I don't think you have a contemptible politics. At the risk of being ageist I think you might just be a bit older than most of the active in group around these parts, which I pick up primarily from your obedience to formalities, references to Star Trek, and incurment of fallacies. That is to say this more aged approach is by design going to bare out certain conflicts. Stay open to change my friend, that is all.
Anyway on No One Can Ever know, its not a text adventure, you only have to input movement actions to get to different destinations, its more like a 'survival roguelite'. It's not super approachable though so maybe that Spring game can fit your taste better, but I might simply recur to you at a later date better reccomendations. Outside of that I don't have quite the same discursive stamina that a lot of others do so just let it be known that if there is another response from me if you respond to this that It'll be a lot more curt. Otherwise, it was nice talking to you, let me really refresh my understanding of how to approach these various dialogues a bit. Be seeing you.
Formerly known and more primarily known as Marcel DuChamp (I only feel comfortable using this example because this is a dubious situation where Rrose never quite 'came out' so its hard to say, but you get the idea I hope)
Your take on Celeste is fair also because, while I think my interpretation is a more charitable reading of the game (and in this case I am taking your lead to ignore the authorial intentions with the anxiety/depression aspect) most of it is a 'motivational speaker' tier approach. I guess my opinion here is that such a motivational and affirmative ethos that says the redundant thing is not actually bad. At the risk of turning a discussion into self promotion, I recommend my post on (One Night, Hot Springs) [https://www.backloggd.com/u/Erato_Heti/review/617896/] where I do defend the sentimental, also a free visual novel about transgender issues and anxieties that you might like if you can handle that limited degree of interactivity. If you choose not to then perhaps another way to look at it might be that 'motivational speaker' art is not necessarily that distinct from a TV show cartoon or a favourite disney movie. When I watch Snow White for instance I'm not focusing so much on the moral complexity or themes as much as the animation or character sensitivity. So for me at least a game being basic in this regard is a non problem, just some food for thought.
I don't think I should comment on anything else, Madeline's characterization or the other responses. Part of the reason why is maybe strategic on my part, I do have a history with a lot of these other people and I don't want to appear too traitorous by saying something I may disagree with later. I do think the point you're making is compelling, but it applies not only just to her being trans but also I would say to her being a gendered protagonist at all. Madeline seems indifferent to her own gender as much as her possible mistreatment due to it. In particular I only stumbled upon this post from Cadensia's activity, who I owe a huge intellectual debt to. More generally though I feel like I need to refresh my relationship with the game. I will say I don't think the criticism is unwarranted entirely and clearly, neither do you because you did capitulate to changing a lot of your post and making the necessary concessions. Even if others are frustrated here I agree you're not a fascist or a transphobe or anything like that. That said, all I'll say on the Maddy thing though is, while that is the official practice, it was also 'official practice' to formally show the birth names of transgender musicians on Rate Your Music until very recently, which led to a lot of incidental transphobia. I haven't looked into this myself but rather than argue on Maddy's behalf I just want to let you know that this approach to factual recording may cause an upset from the queer community again, and more transparently I think it would be fair if say Maddy said she explicitly did not want people doing that, that we didn't do it. On the other hand, personal opinions of her aside, Jame's Stephanie of the Jimquisition show has no compuctions about the use of her dead name in a factual matter like this. Since, to my knowledge, there's no statement in either direction on it, I'm quite alright with letting it go and letting others speak to that more enraged retorts on that front. I only urge you not to think of the past totally in black and whites like this since a deadname can have real psychological impacts in its use here. For me as a trans person, the RYM example I mentioned was not upsetting to me because those names were there in itself, but that they were the first thing I saw when learning about it. If it was academically nessecary to include a historical deadname I would probably run it as a footnote and then mention within that 'I will be referring to them as their desired name'. This is probably how I would write about the Dadaist artist Rrose known for their famous Fountain protest work.
People are getting heated but I don't think you have a contemptible politics. At the risk of being ageist I think you might just be a bit older than most of the active in group around these parts, which I pick up primarily from your obedience to formalities, references to Star Trek, and incurment of fallacies. That is to say this more aged approach is by design going to bare out certain conflicts. Stay open to change my friend, that is all.
Anyway on No One Can Ever know, its not a text adventure, you only have to input movement actions to get to different destinations, its more like a 'survival roguelite'. It's not super approachable though so maybe that Spring game can fit your taste better, but I might simply recur to you at a later date better reccomendations. Outside of that I don't have quite the same discursive stamina that a lot of others do so just let it be known that if there is another response from me if you respond to this that It'll be a lot more curt. Otherwise, it was nice talking to you, let me really refresh my understanding of how to approach these various dialogues a bit. Be seeing you.
Formerly known and more primarily known as Marcel DuChamp (I only feel comfortable using this example because this is a dubious situation where Rrose never quite 'came out' so its hard to say, but you get the idea I hope)
>~< it seems I fudged prolonged italics into my last message somehow, apologies for that but I'm too tired to repair it with a deletion and resubmission, hope you and others can bare it
RedBackLoggd
11 months ago