The Libraries
Amazing games with one amazingly bad part. See also my other Halo-centric list The Warthog Runs.
Open to suggestions but they have to be "Library bad" not just, say, "Blighttown bad".
Open to suggestions but they have to be "Library bad" not just, say, "Blighttown bad".
8 Games
Hollywood Sewers
7 Comments
yea i dont know what Library Bad is either but personally I'd love to nominate bg3's Temple of Shar for being a piece of shit FUCK shar fuck puzzles fuck beezlebub or whatever his name is
@AlphaOne2 so Halo’s Library is a very large, very dark level that’s super easy to get turned around in, full of repetitive “rushdown” type monsters. It has the same sprawling, labyrinthine floor literally copy and pasted I think 5 times? The devs have publicly acknowledged that the level was rushed due to scheduling.
Blighttown is frustrating, has a couple buggy spots (fuck that branch) and had major performance issues on release. Obviously it’s subjective but to me with the framerate problem fixed it’s just a harder part of the game by design. Same with Tomb of the Giants; deliberately hard and frustrating, not a huge faceplant. Lost Izalith (which my phone wants to autocorrect to “Lost Italian”) comes kind of close, but I found that area to be noteworthy mostly for its dullness.
Basically what makes the Library special is that it has no defenders. It’s bad because the designers simply effed up.
So in my mind the criteria are basically:
- the level/area is bad enough that everyone who played the game remembers it as uniquely terrible. If the level has defenders it probably doesn’t fit; we’re going for universal loathing here.
- it’s not just hard, ugly or a little buggy; it has fundamental design flaws
- the rest of the game is outstanding
@moschidae I haven’t played BG3 but given the scope and complexity of it I always assumed there’s a pretty wide spectrum of quality across the experience. No shade but even the most polished 100 hour game seems destined to have some rough spots. Do you think Temple of Shar is that much of a standout and that universally loathed? I’ll defer to your judgment if you promise I won’t get a bunch of BG3 fans in here being like “wtf that was my favorite part” hahahaha.
Blighttown is frustrating, has a couple buggy spots (fuck that branch) and had major performance issues on release. Obviously it’s subjective but to me with the framerate problem fixed it’s just a harder part of the game by design. Same with Tomb of the Giants; deliberately hard and frustrating, not a huge faceplant. Lost Izalith (which my phone wants to autocorrect to “Lost Italian”) comes kind of close, but I found that area to be noteworthy mostly for its dullness.
Basically what makes the Library special is that it has no defenders. It’s bad because the designers simply effed up.
So in my mind the criteria are basically:
- the level/area is bad enough that everyone who played the game remembers it as uniquely terrible. If the level has defenders it probably doesn’t fit; we’re going for universal loathing here.
- it’s not just hard, ugly or a little buggy; it has fundamental design flaws
- the rest of the game is outstanding
@moschidae I haven’t played BG3 but given the scope and complexity of it I always assumed there’s a pretty wide spectrum of quality across the experience. No shade but even the most polished 100 hour game seems destined to have some rough spots. Do you think Temple of Shar is that much of a standout and that universally loathed? I’ll defer to your judgment if you promise I won’t get a bunch of BG3 fans in here being like “wtf that was my favorite part” hahahaha.
Hmm after reading your description I wouldnt say it has too many similarities to what youre talking about, cause it seems to me like youre aiming for a universally agreed on unfinished/unfun area type thing. Temple of Shar just has really, really bad map layout, ridiculously hard bosses (for certain builds i guess?), and d&d puzzles which dont fit the gameplay at all and are very frustrating 2 get through. The whole 2nd act for me in that game is a huge slog that makes me hesitant to replay it BUT i dont think its a very universal opinion.
However i do disagree w you on lost izalith, since that area does pretty much match that description. Unfinished, sometimes ridiculously hard, fundamentally riddled with issues and lackluster game design.
ALSO (sorry this is long) but i feel like ace attorney: justice for all has 1 specific case that everyone pretty much agrees is amazingly bad. Case 3 is riddled with logic holes, obnoxious witnesses, frustrating story beats, and multiple people wanting to marry a 15? 16 year old child which is odd. The rest of the game is good but i dont think its anyones favorite specifically because of that case, and stops a lot of people from replaying the game entirely
However i do disagree w you on lost izalith, since that area does pretty much match that description. Unfinished, sometimes ridiculously hard, fundamentally riddled with issues and lackluster game design.
ALSO (sorry this is long) but i feel like ace attorney: justice for all has 1 specific case that everyone pretty much agrees is amazingly bad. Case 3 is riddled with logic holes, obnoxious witnesses, frustrating story beats, and multiple people wanting to marry a 15? 16 year old child which is odd. The rest of the game is good but i dont think its anyones favorite specifically because of that case, and stops a lot of people from replaying the game entirely
Off the top of my head, would Horse Valley/the Frigid Outskirts from Dark Souls 2 count? Won't lie even as a DS2 fan it certainly has some stinker areas (<3 getting hit by the enemy projectiles before they've even loaded in) but I don't think I've really seen anybody defend the Frigid Outskirts (or either of the other two DLC co-op areas). Something about getting run down by infinitely respawning reindeer all just to fight two copy-pastes of a boss you fought earlier in the DLC I guess doesn't quite endear you to the playerbase.
The Hollywood sewers in Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines, its an enemy gauntlet in tight corridors so stealth isn't really any option and there's not much in the way of reprieve, most fans will tell you just to noclip through it.
@moschidae I think you nailed it with that Ace Attorney example; added!
@radradradish I'm conflicted on DS2... I think Frigid Outskirts is a great example of universal loathing haha but the game throughout is a pretty tarnished gem as you pointed out. Also with it being DLC that kinda makes it its own separate thing and feels like less of an aberration in an otherwise great game.
@ZapRowsdower I haven't played it but I'll take your word; as long as you promise universal loathing! I couldn't find a playthrough with that part marked that didn't have commentary. If you feel like finding one I'll add the link.
@radradradish I'm conflicted on DS2... I think Frigid Outskirts is a great example of universal loathing haha but the game throughout is a pretty tarnished gem as you pointed out. Also with it being DLC that kinda makes it its own separate thing and feels like less of an aberration in an otherwise great game.
@ZapRowsdower I haven't played it but I'll take your word; as long as you promise universal loathing! I couldn't find a playthrough with that part marked that didn't have commentary. If you feel like finding one I'll add the link.
AlphaOne2
3 months ago