Games that I wish had no combat
Not every video game needs combat.
I get that combat is basically embedded in video game design as the main form of gameplay, but sometimes I feel that entirely removing combat could have made for a more focused experience. Whether it's due to combat feeling like an afterthought, shoehorned-in boss fights, or just lacking execution with regards to its vision, this is a more subjective list of games I have personally played where I think the combat was better off excluded. I probably won't be including any titles where combat is the central focus and I just disliked it anyways; rather the titles here I feel have some other elements that should be focused on, and combat detracts from the premise altogether. Also, I'll likely just use this as a diary of sorts whenever I stumble upon or finish another game that I think would fit on this list. Do keep in mind that I like most of the games on this list despite not liking the combat!
Some minor gameplay spoilers on this list in the notes, you've been warned!
I get that combat is basically embedded in video game design as the main form of gameplay, but sometimes I feel that entirely removing combat could have made for a more focused experience. Whether it's due to combat feeling like an afterthought, shoehorned-in boss fights, or just lacking execution with regards to its vision, this is a more subjective list of games I have personally played where I think the combat was better off excluded. I probably won't be including any titles where combat is the central focus and I just disliked it anyways; rather the titles here I feel have some other elements that should be focused on, and combat detracts from the premise altogether. Also, I'll likely just use this as a diary of sorts whenever I stumble upon or finish another game that I think would fit on this list. Do keep in mind that I like most of the games on this list despite not liking the combat!
Some minor gameplay spoilers on this list in the notes, you've been warned!
20 Games
Most of the combat in Mirror's Edge is fortunately optional given the shaky gunplay (likely intentional) and how quickly you can get gunned down if enemies get a few blocks in. And then there's the boss fight vs the assassin where you have to outright defeat someone in hand to hand combat even though it was optimal to just run away for the rest of the game.
For a game about maintaining an extended combo to zoom through giant levels, the bosses in this game don't really seem to contribute anything towards that. A whole lot of downtime and a lack of incentive/utility to maintain combos means that the bosses stand out like a sore thumb in an otherwise fantastic 3D platformer.
Combat is basically an afterthought in this time-loop puzzle adventure game about obtaining and using information and is only dealt with if you choose to grab the golden bow and have to subsequently make your way through several waves of Greek zombies to escape.
Combat is isolated to various sections of each level, where you're trapped by the police with electric barriers and have to fight them off by ramming into them at high enough speeds and spraying them down once on the ground. It's unfortunately a bit of a nightmare given that you're constantly adjusting/snapping the camera to see what's around you to try and reorient yourself for another collision.
I see the vision here, but it feels poorly implemented given that Rei's standard attack combo is three attacks but enemies spawn at you in increments of four hits so you're constantly lingering in one place to get rid of foes.
Attacking enemies to maintain and extend combos from skating tricks isn't a bad idea in theory, but in actuality it's pretty difficult to maintain combos against enemies when fighting grounded enemies, especially because the best technique to dispose of them is the simple attack into corkscrew into mid-air spray that instantly kills grunts but will always break any extended combo. Also, fighting back just increases the heat level, which makes it a ton more difficult to traverse the stages to build up extended combos in the first place.
Fuck the sword fighting in the 2nd to last stage of this game. Some of the worst motion controls I have ever had to contend with.
Very repetitive slashy combat that just boils down to tapping the A button rapidly. Gets grindy real fast because you're going to be going back to campfires a ton to regenerate health/empty your inventory, and resting at campfires regenerates nearby enemies so you become overpowered very quickly. The exploration of Fragile Dreams with swinging your flashlight around and hunting down ghosts with your Wii mote is more than enough to carry the game, so I'd much prefer if the combat just wasn't there.
I think I'm in the minority for this one but I actually enjoyed the simple stealth photography core gameplay, as I thought it gave off the feeling of being a secret agent quite well. Unfortunately, they sometimes just force you to engage in straight sword fights, which can make some of the bosses feel like absolute slogs.
I'm a little more receptive to Ico's repetitive combat than before given that it's installed just to give Ico another form of interaction with Yorda, but it often crosses the line into feeling genuinely obnoxious when the shadow enemies start kidnapping Yorda and flying across to the other side of the room while I have to relentlessly whack everything in my way. Monkey-in-the-middle is not what I particularly enjoy about Ico, to say the least.
Most of the original game was focused on just speeding your way through with Ori's fantastic movement options, and the bash is the best example of turning a "combat" option into movement tech. Sometimes though, you're forced to fight mini-bosses where most of the time is spent waiting around until the boss pops out again, which is not quite as interesting.
Fortunately you can ignore most of the enemies in Pseudoregalia with little consequence, assuming you don't need to stop and recharge for health, though sometimes they lock you in a room where you have no choice but to hack and slash away at all the foes in the room just to unlock the exits. Doesn't help that there's a real lack of impact with hits since enemies don't react to being attacked.
Another case where I see the vision, but it doesn't play out so well. Geist often leans hard into straight action sequences where your protagonist must possess a soldier and shoot through scores of baddies, and given that most baddies crumble from three shots to anywhere on their body and you have unlimited ammo from reloads, it's not much of a challenge. I much prefer the puzzle-adventure game aspect of Geist where you actively have to jump in and out of bodies and equipment to manipulate enemies and the environment around you, such as the extended motorcycle chase sequence.
This puzzle-traversal metroidvania felt the need to include some boss fights with tons of waiting around that detracts from the overall exploration. Starting to see a pattern here.
The chase combat sequences versus the tainted spirit animals were pretty cool (juggling shooting talismans to retain momentum vs taking shots at the bosses themselves), but the actual arena boss fights that happen right afterwards are snoozefests. Take a couple of pot shots, choose which direction to run in a circle around the boss to dodge all their attacks, and then take more pot shots and repeat the cycle anew.
Enemies are too spongy and should only take 2-3 hits to kill as opposed to strafing and peashooting them for a solid 15-20 seconds each time. This gets old fast considering every goon in the game is fought the exact same way, and it's not like fighting the enemies adds much to the core 3D platforming premise. Vid example
I do like the plane boss fights though!
I do like the plane boss fights though!
I'll be nicer to the sequel since I think adding two more "styles" to the mix improves combat somewhat, but combat is real rough in the original. It's usually just faster to fly-kick every enemy until it dies, and the lack of auto-aim + super constrained FOV + constantly flying enemies means that it gets pretty disorienting quickly. The original probably could have just stuck to races and gravity exploration/minigames and gotten away with it.
Every armored enemy in this game is an absolute beefcake and takes like 17 swings of your sword to break before you can spray them into oblivion. I really wish they had just focused on the puzzle-platforming elements, the combat doesn't add much of value. My poor wrist...
Mindlessly mash A to defeat any shadow buggers for mandatory story quests, attacking them with one single strike at a time. You'd have to try to die in this game given that enemies take an eternity and a half to charge up attacks and you'll naturally recharge health when out of combat anyways. I'd much prefer if the devs spent more time taking advantage of the wave surfing with larger obstacle courses in the ocean, but alas, there weren't enough races in comparison to the sheer amount of boring combat.
Haven has a lot of problems, but the grindy combat was the straw that broke the camel's back. You can't run away from fights, you can't dodge or block attacks, you can only heal most of your damage from recipes cooked at home base/camp, and there's loading zones a plenty every time you need to backtrack for resources or health as a result of combat. You could probably cut the game's length by 2/3rds if combat was removed.
22 Comments
Death Stranding is the one for me. The main complaint about that game is that it's "too boring" or "just a walking simulator" but I think it actually has way too many systems.... just let me walk around some hills and balance big boxes...
Hard agree on Fragile Dreams, think a lot of games just feel like they arent Actually games unless theres some form of combat in it
love this concept because there really are too many games that throw in unnecessary combat. my personal pick would be Silent Hill 2, the monsters (after the first encounters) never really added to the fear or tension for me and are easily ignorable. I don't think anything else about SH2 could be criticized as much as the boss encounters. it's a special experience that goes beyond playing a video game, then I just get thrown right back into the gamey-ness with the combat
hard agree on ori, and watching that bit you linked is genuine agony. my own problem with ico's combat was just the sheer amount of it. i quite liked it in very short bursts (it isn't very fun, but kinda in a cool way?) but it kept cropping up *so* often that any spell it had on me disappeared and i was just running round in circles chasing shades around for ages
cool list, i've wanted to make one of my own for a while because it's an irk i've had with my fair share of games as well
cool list, i've wanted to make one of my own for a while because it's an irk i've had with my fair share of games as well
It's worth noting that the forced combat in Mirror's Edge specifically highlights that the character in question was not who you thought they were, and their choice of combat is distinctly antithetical to that incorrect belief. It highlights their betrayal, and also proposes an important question in the game about running: what do you do when you can't run? And then immediately doubles down on that with the reveal of Project Icarus' nature, which was the fruit of said betrayal.
@gruel Oh boy, I had completely blocked that out of my memory. Yeah, doesn't help that the final moments of Pseudoregalia are just a straight boss fight with bait and punish. Agreed on Solar Ash, if they had just focused on traversal then I think they would have had a pretty solid platformer on their hands. I really wish they just leaned a bit more into the minimalism.
@Funbil I've never played Death Stranding but I also forgot that it had boss fights thrown into the mix of delivery missions. That'll be an interesting one to look forward to...
@moschidae That was pretty much the motivation for making this list. Sometimes it felt like exploration and puzzle games were getting an entire combat system stuffed into the mix, and honestly if exploration and puzzles are your strength I'd much rather be doing that.
@trinity The bosses in Silent Hill 2 didn't bother me enough to consider putting it on the list but I do agree that they're one of the weaker aspects of the game. I can personally stomach most of the monster encounters due to the atmosphere alone but more enemy variety/designs would have definitely been appreciated.
@faea Yeah Ico's combat wore out its welcome fast. If it was used more sparingly then I think I would have felt a lot more tension from Yorda getting kidnapped, but when it's happening every five minutes or so (exaggerated slightly for effect), it takes a lot of punch out of the encounters.
@EVX This is actually a really good point, and it wasn't something I had considered fitting thematically but makes complete sense. I still find the boss fight absolutely miserable but you're right that it proves and really emphasizes the moment of betrayal. I can at least respect it for holding up narratively even if I don't actually enjoy going through the moment.
@Funbil I've never played Death Stranding but I also forgot that it had boss fights thrown into the mix of delivery missions. That'll be an interesting one to look forward to...
@moschidae That was pretty much the motivation for making this list. Sometimes it felt like exploration and puzzle games were getting an entire combat system stuffed into the mix, and honestly if exploration and puzzles are your strength I'd much rather be doing that.
@trinity The bosses in Silent Hill 2 didn't bother me enough to consider putting it on the list but I do agree that they're one of the weaker aspects of the game. I can personally stomach most of the monster encounters due to the atmosphere alone but more enemy variety/designs would have definitely been appreciated.
@faea Yeah Ico's combat wore out its welcome fast. If it was used more sparingly then I think I would have felt a lot more tension from Yorda getting kidnapped, but when it's happening every five minutes or so (exaggerated slightly for effect), it takes a lot of punch out of the encounters.
@EVX This is actually a really good point, and it wasn't something I had considered fitting thematically but makes complete sense. I still find the boss fight absolutely miserable but you're right that it proves and really emphasizes the moment of betrayal. I can at least respect it for holding up narratively even if I don't actually enjoy going through the moment.
Wholeheartedly agree with Haven. It had an interesting premise, but the actual gameplay (combat + the amount of needless mechanics) was frustrating enough for me to drop it.
Honestly the Alan Wake games. They made some improvements in the second game but it still feels so obnoxious and frustrating that I wish it was either removed or more de-emphasized. Also feel like the Gravity Rush games apply here as well as the combat just never felt right, especially in the more involved boss fights near the end.
Seconding Death Stranding. The combat felt unnecessary in what is already pretty satisfying gameplay by picking up and traveling with the boxes while carefully navigating the terrain and building connections across the space. The sequel seems to still have it as a core part which is disappointing but maybe there are some substantial improvements to make it less frustrating.
Seconding Death Stranding. The combat felt unnecessary in what is already pretty satisfying gameplay by picking up and traveling with the boxes while carefully navigating the terrain and building connections across the space. The sequel seems to still have it as a core part which is disappointing but maybe there are some substantial improvements to make it less frustrating.
@gruel Oh boy, I am not looking forward to the day where I feel tempted to make that list. Can't even begin to try and figure out how many entries there would be...
@Lemonstrade Looks like you got out early, the ending felt like a letdown too and really didn't justify all those hours of fiddling with the "too fast when dashing and too slow when walking" traversal after getting trapped in fight after fight.
@sleepytitan I was pretty close to putting Gravity Rush on the list myself, but held off at the last minute. I think now I'll put the original since the combat there feels really limiting and repetitive, though I'm inclined to be a bit nicer to the sequel since that game gave me some new styles to mess around with so combat options didn't feel as stale. Again, I'll have to see for myself when/if I end up ever getting to Death Stranding and Alan Wake!
@Lemonstrade Looks like you got out early, the ending felt like a letdown too and really didn't justify all those hours of fiddling with the "too fast when dashing and too slow when walking" traversal after getting trapped in fight after fight.
@sleepytitan I was pretty close to putting Gravity Rush on the list myself, but held off at the last minute. I think now I'll put the original since the combat there feels really limiting and repetitive, though I'm inclined to be a bit nicer to the sequel since that game gave me some new styles to mess around with so combat options didn't feel as stale. Again, I'll have to see for myself when/if I end up ever getting to Death Stranding and Alan Wake!
just started beyond good and evil and yeah... the combat is a whole lotta nothing for me atm
Control for me. I just want to explore and figure out what was going on.
+1 for Death Stranding, the traversal mechanics in this game are stellar but every time I have to deal with enemies, either human or ghost, the smile drops off my face. The combat is not good, not fun, and doesn't really add anything to the experience.
The best "combat" I had in this game so far was trying to climb up a a cliff in the rain next to a waterfall with a full backpack but almost no climbing gear.
The best "combat" I had in this game so far was trying to climb up a a cliff in the rain next to a waterfall with a full backpack but almost no climbing gear.
Planescape: Torment.
All of the classic Tomb Raider games for me. Exploration is 10/10 but combat is so bad and ruins so many moments for me it brings it down to a 6/10
There should be no combat in Bully. I think everyone should be friends instead.
The games I wish had no combat are 90% of turn-based JRPG'S with good stories.
Jokes aside, I also don't get the constant need for combat in many games. With the advent of walking sims, I guess it's getting less 'taboo' for a game just to be a relaxing experience. Fragile Dreams is the one I agree most heavily on. The games atmosphere being it's strong point, there's really no need for pseudo-Zelda combat, with weapons that break every 5 seconds. I guess it makes sense within the context of the games survival horror aspect, but it still makes the game kinda frustrating at bits.
Jokes aside, I also don't get the constant need for combat in many games. With the advent of walking sims, I guess it's getting less 'taboo' for a game just to be a relaxing experience. Fragile Dreams is the one I agree most heavily on. The games atmosphere being it's strong point, there's really no need for pseudo-Zelda combat, with weapons that break every 5 seconds. I guess it makes sense within the context of the games survival horror aspect, but it still makes the game kinda frustrating at bits.
Soma applies to this to some extent. Sure, you dont fight the barnacle-covered ghoul that is hunting you down, but the game is still putting you face-to-face with an obstacle that is ultimately superfluous.
disagree about Ico. Yes the combat is very simplistic but it's necessary to instill tension (and your relationship with Yorda as explained) and incentivises you to strategise, i.e. keeping the stick for a future puzzle or using the sword to get by shadows faster, or trying to finding the mace/lightsaber. Without it it just becomes a straightforward puzzle game
Thanks everyone for all the comments suggesting other games that might fit on here; I'll probably keep them in mind when I go through those games myself. Death Stranding in particular seems to really be a point of frustration regarding combat.
@bwoe I talked about this with a friend, but essentially, Ico is on here as a fringe example. I completely see what they're going for regarding building up the relationship with Yorda, but I also just... don't see that level of planning and strategizing in the minimalist combat? That's likely the point considering Ueda's direction (i.e. only having one type of enemy that can be defeated in the exact same manner every time), but as a result I and a few others (see faea's comment above) found that it wore out its welcome after a few encounters. At times, I wonder if it would have been more time efficient and provoking if the enemies forced you to run away instead while defending Yorda; I can't completely explain why, but there's something about The Last Guardian's enemy encounters that's a lot more powerful than those of Ico's. And for what it's worth, I would be absolutely okay if the game was just a straightforward puzzle platformer. I already love what it does and still love it even if I have qualms over the combat.
@bwoe I talked about this with a friend, but essentially, Ico is on here as a fringe example. I completely see what they're going for regarding building up the relationship with Yorda, but I also just... don't see that level of planning and strategizing in the minimalist combat? That's likely the point considering Ueda's direction (i.e. only having one type of enemy that can be defeated in the exact same manner every time), but as a result I and a few others (see faea's comment above) found that it wore out its welcome after a few encounters. At times, I wonder if it would have been more time efficient and provoking if the enemies forced you to run away instead while defending Yorda; I can't completely explain why, but there's something about The Last Guardian's enemy encounters that's a lot more powerful than those of Ico's. And for what it's worth, I would be absolutely okay if the game was just a straightforward puzzle platformer. I already love what it does and still love it even if I have qualms over the combat.
PRINCE OF PERSIA THE SANDS OF TIME. i literally do not remember anything else from that other than the shitty mandatory combat that feels bad nd lame.
i had an idea for a 3d platformer where ur guy cant fight enemies and instead has to run away nd potentially use environmental hazards to kill them bc i do not think a great platformer needs that. at the very least defeating enemies shld feel satisfying nd impactful nd not hollow like in psuedoregalia or sonic heroes
i had an idea for a 3d platformer where ur guy cant fight enemies and instead has to run away nd potentially use environmental hazards to kill them bc i do not think a great platformer needs that. at the very least defeating enemies shld feel satisfying nd impactful nd not hollow like in psuedoregalia or sonic heroes
gruel
1 month ago
solar ash's feels insecure, like the devs didn't believe the kickass movement physics could carry the day.